biocon moms

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boomzilla boomzilla's picture
biocon moms

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OOC: I just realized a kid talking about never wanting to become an adult, never wanting to go through puberty might be... erm... kinda gross/triggering to some people? Like how some people get grossed out by Neotenic morphs? I hope not. My apologies if so. I feel ambivalent about my own thread here, but I do think it's interesting to think about what childhood is like for (non-Lost Gen) post-Fall kids.

[from: ]

My moms are so biocon. I can't stand it. They should have left their flatlander memes back on dustball Earth. They say I have to wait until I am 16 to try resleeving. 16 Earth years! Moms, your ageist initiation rituals are even sillier when we are in a system where the truth is I am not yet 1/3 of a year old.

I haven't hit puberty yet. I don't want to. Ever. It's gross and it's not needed. I want to block it, but I guess the big ideas about "morphological freedom" are tossed in the waste reclamation. One of my mom's cousins back in the post-industrial age on Earth did puberty blocking because he felt gender disphoria. This was before resleeving was invented. I asked them, "isn't it the same thing?" and they said no, but they couldn't explain why.

I am in the top 10% of my academic creche. My academic creche is just normal kids. But compared to old Earth, we are already as smart as the median adult when nuclear bombs were the scariest thing they could imagine.

I learn history. Moms' memes are stuck in the Industrial Age! I take nootropics, my brain is clear of old cruft, but my culture is full of it!

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
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Ah, that wonderful age when you think you know everything and your parents are full of shit.
I'd give anything to see my mothers again. Trust me, they may seem like a pain in the ass when you're ten, but if you didn't know if they're still alive or not, you'd appreciate them and their ways a whole lot more.

Anyway, let's see. You must be about ten, if you're comparing your age to the orbit of Saturn and pointing out how you're less than 1/3rd of a year old. A bit young to hit the rebellious years, but...

Well, I won't give you a lecture about why we still use Earth timekeeping. (Well, maybe I will, but I'll put it in a callout at the bottom of this post. Having had to defend the position on why we still use it in an open debate at T.A.U. against a rather ardent supporter of Martian timekeeping, I'm rather vested in it.) Instead, let's see...

Puberty - it can be a weird time, I admit, but thankfully it's not as gross as it once was. Acne is a thing of the past, thank modern medicine. It is awkward, though, it certainly can be weird, figuring out what you want, what you like - who you want and who you like. Growing larger and more physically capable is certainly a nice upshot, though if you live on Volkograd and aren't just spoofing your location, that may not be particularly interesting to you. It's hard to freerun without any gravity at all.

And sex is fun... Believe me, sex is fun. Well, it can awkward and weird at first, but it's worth it. But I digress.

Your main point appears to be one of morphological freedom. Well, I'm all for morphological freedom - as the person living in one of the most extensively-modded Hazers on Titan, I'd be a massive hippocrit if I weren't - but you're also young - very, very young. I just asked a neurology professor, and they told me that they wouldn't endorse a child your age resleeving except under 'extreme circumstances.' Apparently it can be very dangerous, neurologically speaking, and carries risks of resleeving complications far in excess of those that older persons face. The risks go down dramatically through your teens, but he actually said he wouldn't recommend that anyone under the age of 20 resleeve for any but serious reasons. So your mothers are actually being medically-inadvisably permissive in that regard.

Really, though, why do you fear puberty? Have you talked - seriously talked - about it, with a mental health expert? You probably should.

On keeping time by Earth standards:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
It's simple, really: standardization. It's the only timekeeping that everyone is familiar with. Irregardless of any arguments about the superiority of any one timekeeping system or another, Earth time is the only time that everyone can agree on knowing and implementing. There are good reasons for this - even with hibernation mods and circadian regulators, transhuman biomorphs - all of them, uplifts included - are based on genetics which evolved for Earth's 24-hour cycle; our neurology is based on it, our culture is based on it. Saturn may always be in the same place in the Titanian sky, but we still talk about our nightlife.

Furthermore, any time precision in timekeeping is necessary, an exact and universally-understood understood standard is possible. One particularly nasty trick that hypercorps like to pull with contracts, especially slavery contracts, is specifying a time in years without specifying whose years they're referring to. Then once it's signed and sealed, the poor fucker they tricked realizes that his "short" two-year slavery contract was actually two of Extropia's years, or seven and a half years. (Don't think that's something you don't have to worry about; if you think they won't slap an indenture contract on a kid your age, think again. The shameless bastards will do anything for a fistful of credits.)

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ringringlingling ringringlingling's picture
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There is something to be said for wanting to preserve one's neuroplasticity, but that can lead to all sorts of mental problems down the road. I doubt anybody would condone experimenting on a child. Well, maybe on Bright.

You could make a deal with one of the criminal syndicates, but who knows what they do to kids? Not like you've got any collateral.

ringringlingling ringringlingling's picture
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Hey kid, wanna buy some candy?

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
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ringringlingling wrote:
Login Location: Ilmarinen, St Jude's Medical
@-List ID: Nibbetz-bzzzt-2221212

There is something to be said for wanting to preserve one's neuroplasticity,

You can actually get a neuroplasticity mod. I have one, it's pretty cool. Bit of childlike wonder to the world, really fast to pick up languages.

Quote:
You could make a deal with one of the criminal syndicates, but who knows what they do to kids? Not like you've got any collateral.

I have connections in Titanian law enforcement.
I just looked into it. I'd give the details, but the OP is literally ten, and this shit is making me feel like I'm not going to be sleeping anytime in the next 72 hours. Now I sort-of understand why every now and then a proposal to amend the Commonwealth's judicial code to allow for the execution and permanent ego-erasure of members of Nine Lives and the ID Crew keeps coming up.

OP, for the love of fuck, don't make any deals with the syndicates. You do not want to find out what happens.

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Panoptic Panoptic's picture
boomzilla wrote:Spoiler:

boomzilla wrote:
Spoiler: Highlight to view

OOC: I just realized a kid talking about never wanting to become an adult, never wanting to go through puberty might be... erm... kinda gross/triggering to some people? Like how some people get grossed out by Neotenic morphs? I hope not. My apologies if so. I feel ambivalent about my own thread here, but I do think it's interesting to think about what childhood is like for (non-Lost Gen) post-Fall kids.

[from: ]

My moms are so biocon. I can't stand it. They should have left their flatlander memes back on dustball Earth. They say I have to wait until I am 16 to try resleeving. 16 Earth years! Moms, your ageist initiation rituals are even sillier when we are in a system where the truth is I am not yet 1/3 of a year old.

I haven't hit puberty yet. I don't want to. Ever. It's gross and it's not needed. I want to block it, but I guess the big ideas about "morphological freedom" are tossed in the waste reclamation. One of my mom's cousins back in the post-industrial age on Earth did puberty blocking because he felt gender disphoria. This was before resleeving was invented. I asked them, "isn't it the same thing?" and they said no, but they couldn't explain why.

I am in the top 10% of my academic creche. My academic creche is just normal kids. But compared to old Earth, we are already as smart as the median adult when nuclear bombs were the scariest thing they could imagine.

I learn history. Moms' memes are stuck in the Industrial Age! I take nootropics, my brain is clear of old cruft, but my culture is full of it!

From personal experience, intelligence or even knowledge are not sufficient to claim any sort of wisdom. In a short span of earth years, you will have morphological freedom regardless. So why fret? Enjoy your youth and relative safety while you can, and use it to prepare yourself for the amoral teacher that is experience.

On 'IC Talk': Seyit Karga, Ultimate

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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Login Location: Aarhus, Titan

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Panoptic wrote:
From personal experience, intelligence or even knowledge are not sufficient to claim any sort of wisdom. In a short span of earth years, you will have morphological freedom regardless. So why fret? Enjoy your youth and relative safety while you can, and use it to prepare yourself for the amoral teacher that is experience.

Especially if he's on Volkograd. An exploitative hypercorp stronghold that cracks down on anything with a whiff of collective bargaining lest they attract the aid of their very autonomist neighbors?

The School of Hard Knocks is going to be open for business sooner rather than later for this poor kid.

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SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Keep in mind that your first

Keep in mind that your first morph is an opportunity, not a restriction. I lost mine too early, and it's a shame. Value what you have, even if it's not what you want most. Walking a mile in shoes that don't fit can teach a lesson that you don't get by switching as you desire. As someone who has been in tons of different morphs, I can tell you that even though I didn't feel particularly "at home" in my original body, you don't get better than that.

Sure you might be more capable or get different social responses, but there is something to be said for working with nature. It gives you an idea of what you really want in a morph, for one. Second, if you stick with your base morph until you've settled in on a career path, you can choose a morph that fits for you. Of course, as a mercenary I tend to go for a nice Remade, but when I first forked (during, by the way, that key neurological development point in my life, so I have first-hand experience) I chose a crappy Slitheroid because of the marketing and price point. Fortunately I didn't see action against the TITANs in that morph, because I would've been exsurgent toast.

Not to mention the fact that there's a reason we tend not to resleeve adolescents. Back when I was a licensed psychosurgeon, adolescent resleeves were something like 30-40% of my work. Your base neuropatterns develop with your body, and that includes decision making and interpersonal assessment skills as well as your intellectual neurons: switching over to an adult-pattern brain is a huge adjustment at least and can leave you with developmental gaps. Dealing with that would actually become crucial for me when I merged after the Fall.

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Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Hey Kid, wanna work around

Hey Kid, wanna work around your Moms' restriction?
Get some simulspace access to some of those 'morph tryout' places.
Spend the next 6 Earth Years trying out every morph combo you can.
Stay away from Nonaspace tho (9 lives runs it)
By the time they are ready to let you resleeve, you could have a custom morph design that would make a Jovian crap themselves... or get you awards from Titanian Morph designers... or Scum beauty contests.

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
As a word of warning,

As a word of warning, accelerated simulspace and minors has a chequered past. Just gonna put that out there.

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Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
I was talking about the non

I was talking about the non accelerated kind.
Kid's got time.+

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Word of warning: while

Word of warning: while simulspace "try it before you sleeve it" rigs are certainly better than resleeving cold turkey, they don't really capture the full effect of being in a new body. Certainly they can give you the physical sense of the morph, but they're emulating it in your existing thinkspace, and can't really give you a good feeling of what, say, a mind wired and tuned for mental or social activity is going to be like.

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Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Mostly true.

Mostly true.
The really top end ones can emulate the feel of the differing mindspace... almost perfectly.
But they are hard to get access to, and are based on Eidolon tech.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Don't those essentially do

Don't those essentially do what an ego bridge does in bridging you across multiple thinkspaces at once, only instead of resleeving you fully, pour you back into your existing mind?

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Baribal Baribal's picture
The problem with simulspace

The problem with simulspace is that to use it properly, you'd first have to sleeve into an infomorph, and if mommy is against resleeving into another biomorph, she'd probably throw at even the suggestion. But putting that aside for a moment, being a psychosurgeon, I'd rather not recommend skipping puberty. While I'm all for egomorphological freedom, puberty is an important phase for psychological restructuring that really shouldn't be missed out on.
Here's a trick, though: Back yourself up ASAP. Do go through puberty, then have a talk with an instance of that backup. If you still think that a life without puberty is preferable, you can overwrite yourself with that old copy, and even merge the memories of the time in between into your younger ego. There are a few rather groundbreaking papers about ego merging coming out of Titan recently, so when you're old enough, the technology should be well-established and battle-tested.

Morgan's Butchery | Body bank, morph individualization and upgrades | Psychotherapy and Psychosurgery, therapeutic and recreational | http://eclipsephase.com/comment/59484#comment-59484

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Baribal wrote:The problem

Baribal wrote:
The problem with simulspace is that to use it properly, you'd first have to sleeve into an infomorph, and if mommy is against resleeving into another biomorph, she'd probably throw at even the suggestion. But putting that aside for a moment, being a psychosurgeon, I'd rather not recommend skipping puberty. While I'm all for egomorphological freedom, puberty is an important phase for psychological restructuring that really shouldn't be missed out on.
Here's a trick, though: Back yourself up ASAP. Do go through puberty, then have a talk with an instance of that backup. If you still think that a life without puberty is preferable, you can overwrite yourself with that old copy, and even merge the memories of the time in between into your younger ego. There are a few rather groundbreaking papers about ego merging coming out of Titan recently, so when you're old enough, the technology should be well-established and battle-tested.

Though most of the papers don't talk about skipping formative years, so that's a little iffy there.

Likewise, I've looked over the papers and I remain skeptical: it was more of a "can we do it?" than a "should we do it?" proposition.

If you're going to do the "wait through it and allow a fork the option of skipping it" thing, I suggest letting the fork just be an independent, unmerged alpha.

All the cool kids are doing it.

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Baribal Baribal's picture
SquireNed wrote:Though most

SquireNed wrote:
Though most of the papers don't talk about skipping formative years, so that's a little iffy there.

Absolutely. And frankly, I doubt that an instance of boomzilla that has gone through puberty would rather be replaced by one that hasn't. But with the multitude of identity disorders that exist, I wouldn't want to rule it out completely. And now that, since we can now shape both morphs and egos, adjusting them to our identity instead of adjusting our identity to them has taken over as the dominant form of therapy, I really can't see an categorical problem with it.
Also, said Titanian papers aren't about identity disorders, but merging technology, so of course they don't tackle that topic directly. But I do see potential for application here. Heck, even without identity disorder, merging at least temporarily with a backup from a long time ago may be a good time. "Remember when we used to X? I remember like it was yesterday." So, how about making it yesterday?

SquireNed wrote:
Likewise, I've looked over the papers and I remain skeptical: it was more of a "can we do it?" than a "should we do it?" proposition.

If you consider that a good argument, you should better not take a look at what recreative psychosurgery I'm applying as a matter of course, nor at some of the therapeutic ones. Hell, something goes wrong, there's always the option to resetting to before messing it up.

SquireNed wrote:
If you're going to do the "wait through it and allow a fork the option of skipping it" thing, I suggest letting the fork just be an independent, unmerged alpha.

Sure, that's a possibility, and a very safe route, but it'd also make the ego miss out on all the memories that happened in the meantime.

Morgan's Butchery | Body bank, morph individualization and upgrades | Psychotherapy and Psychosurgery, therapeutic and recreational | http://eclipsephase.com/comment/59484#comment-59484