The Book of Armaments

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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
The Book of Armaments
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So, I've been working on a thing.

I have not read the An Ultimate's Guide to Combat by Squire Ned. In fact, I've been ignoring it because I didn't like the name, and then I continued to ignore it so as not to risk inadvertently stealing something I read in it.

My thing is called The Book of Armaments. Yes, I made the Python joke. (But only three days after I realized "Holy shit, I'm actually writing something I'm calling The Book of Armaments and I haven't made the Python joke.")

This focuses on weapons, and weapon-related rules. This contains those heavy weapons that tanks and giant mechs and fighters should be doing battle with - IE, those things that will in all liklihood wipe out any character in one shot. Obviously, they shouldn't be taking shots from these things unless something has gone hilariously wrong.

There's also quite a few small arms, though, including some heavy Beam Weapons that should hopefully make Beam Weapons not quite so much "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Plasma Rifle (and those other things.)"

Anyway, I'm not even going to try and table-ize this damn thing on the forum. I would most strongly recommend you read it on Google Docs, where you can leave comments directly on the page.

But failing that (and since I know there's always some people who cannot or will not use Google Docs,) have a PDF I prepared. Note that the preparations consisted of "download as > PDF," and I've done precisely zero formatting to pretty it up in paginated view, since I expect revisions, if not additions will come.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
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SquireNed SquireNed's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:I have

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I have not read the An Ultimate's Guide to Combat by Squire Ned. In fact, I've been ignoring it because I didn't like the name, and then I continued to ignore it so as not to risk inadvertently stealing something I read in it.

Hey, I'm +Open Source. Feel free to "steal" if you want.

EDIT: Some thoughts:

Smart magazines exist in EP already (they half ammunition capacity, p. 342 EP), though yours are different so you may have intentionally duplicated them.

My big concern with double-barrel and multi-linked guns is that they have a sort of massive damage overkill scenario very easily; the maximum damage in vanilla EP is ~5d10+12, plus ammo bonuses (I think it caps at like 6d10+12 with ammo mods, but I might be wrong), and a quad-linked gun does, potentially, 10d10+24 [assuming no armor], which is admittedly for a machine gun, but even a pistol could wind up doing 10d10+8 damage. Hardening makes it somewhat better, but still falls victim to the huge-big double barrel rules.

In AUGC, I avoid modifying vanilla weapons at all. This is a season to taste decision, so I'm not necessarily criticizing you for it, but it may make adoption into play a little more difficult if people have to change what they're used to. Another thing to consider is that most weapons in EP are stated to have no recoil. IMO this is unrealistic, but I treat it as a canon rule and only artillery (once it's in AUGC) or really shoddy improvised weapons have recoil. This has the (potentially unwanted) side effect of meaning that yes, you can just shoulder that AMR and go to town.

Typo: single-shot grenade pistol ss both concealable and reliable

Again, season to taste, but the rifles feel a little non-punchy to me, while the beam weapons are huge-big "Oh, crap!" sources.

Other than that, it looks fairly good. Well done!

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
SquireNed wrote

SquireNed wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I have not read the An Ultimate's Guide to Combat by Squire Ned. In fact, I've been ignoring it because I didn't like the name, and then I continued to ignore it so as not to risk inadvertently stealing something I read in it.

Hey, I'm +Open Source. Feel free to "steal" if you want.

EDIT: Some thoughts:

Smart magazines exist in EP already (they half ammunition capacity, p. 342 EP), though yours are different so you may have intentionally duplicated them.

I know. I should have made that a more obvious statement that those rules were specifically overruling the default rules re: smart mags.

Basically, it annoys me that magazines are treated as being weapon modifications. They're not! They're weapon plug-ins, and they're technically unnecessary, in the way that the tires on your car are technically unnecessary. (Technically, you can load individual rounds into the breach as a complex reload action and fire it as a single-shot weapon. Also technically, you can drive on your rims.)

So, I decided to say "fuck that noise." You want to load a 100-round beta-C mag into your rifle? Go right ahead. You want to load a Smart Mag Beta-C into your rifle? It'll cost you more, because it has a lot of complex internal jiggers and far more complex ammo-feeding system, but you an still do it.

Also, unless you're okay with ejecting the round in the chamber to load the round that you want, you'll need to modify your weapon to interface with the smart mag, so it can unload the chambered round and return it to the smart mag.

Quote:
My big concern with double-barrel and multi-linked guns is that they have a sort of massive damage overkill scenario very easily; the maximum damage in vanilla EP is ~5d10+12, plus ammo bonuses (I think it caps at like 6d10+12 with ammo mods, but I might be wrong), and a quad-linked gun does, potentially, 10d10+24 [assuming no armor], which is admittedly for a machine gun, but even a pistol could wind up doing 10d10+8 damage. Hardening makes it somewhat better, but still falls victim to the huge-big double barrel rules.

My entire ethos behind this game doc is "fuck game balance, if it should work, it works." That said, dual and quad-mounted weapons are for weapon mount applications and single-shot applications only.

So sure, you can make yourself a pirate-style pepperbox pistol and kill a motherfucker dead with one trigger pull. You're also only gonna be able to do that once. Same with shotguns/sniper rifles. It takes balls and class to be using a break-action rifle in 2143. Also, you don't deal 10d10+24, even with a quad-barreled machine gun mount.

You deal 5d10+12 and 5d10+12. There is a difference; armor (what's left after your AP, anyway) applies to each roll individually, and each roll applies Wounds separately. Same with using a double-barreled sniper rifle. You're not going to be dealing 4d10+24 damage, you'll be dealing 2d10+12 and 2d10+12.

Quote:
In AUGC, I avoid modifying vanilla weapons at all. This is a season to taste decision, so I'm not necessarily criticizing you for it, but it may make adoption into play a little more difficult if people have to change what they're used to. Another thing to consider is that most weapons in EP are stated to have no recoil. IMO this is unrealistic, but I treat it as a canon rule and only artillery (once it's in AUGC) or really shoddy improvised weapons have recoil. This has the (potentially unwanted) side effect of meaning that yes, you can just shoulder that AMR and go to town.

I've always held that the no-recoil rule means that the rheological smart systems compensate for weapon torque moving your barrel off your target. They do not magically negate Newton's Third Law of Motion!

Basically, the no-recoil rule was the EP authors' way of avoiding the problem where you have, in Shadowrun, about five pages of nothing but rules regarding recoil and how it interacts with the silly ways players are going to be quad-wielding submachine guns.

Quote:
Typo: single-shot grenade pistol ss both concealable and reliable

Thanks, fixed.

Quote:
Again, season to taste, but the rifles feel a little non-punchy to me, while the beam weapons are huge-big "Oh, crap!" sources.

Other than that, it looks fairly good. Well done!

The Heavy Rifles are just an intermediate step between the ammunition of Autorifles/LMGs (in canon, "Machine Guns,") and the ammunition of the Sniper Rifles (Which I reckoned are the equivalent of HMGs.) The beam weapons are all-new guns, and were made because, quite frankly, the canon beam weapons are basically "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Plasma Rifle, and some other shit nobody ever uses besides the stunner because they suuuuuuuck!."

So, I fixed that, and gave unto you some heavy energy weapons shamelessly stolen from Mass Effect 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and Dead Space. (And at the upper end, Battletech.)

The rifles will probably still be considerably more practical, though.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
The Five Orange Pips

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
SquireNed wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I have not read the An Ultimate's Guide to Combat by Squire Ned. In fact, I've been ignoring it because I didn't like the name, and then I continued to ignore it so as not to risk inadvertently stealing something I read in it.

Hey, I'm +Open Source. Feel free to "steal" if you want.

EDIT: Some thoughts:

Smart magazines exist in EP already (they half ammunition capacity, p. 342 EP), though yours are different so you may have intentionally duplicated them.

I know. I should have made that a more obvious statement that those rules were specifically overruling the default rules re: smart mags.

[edit]In fact, I've fixed that in the original document, in big black and italic letters.[/edit]

Basically, it annoys me that magazines are treated as being weapon modifications. They're not! They're weapon plug-ins, and they're technically unnecessary, in the way that the tires on your car are technically unnecessary. (Technically, you can load individual rounds into the breach as a complex reload action and fire it as a single-shot weapon. Also technically, you can drive on your rims.)

So, I decided to say "fuck that noise." You want to load a 100-round beta-C mag into your rifle? Go right ahead. You want to load a Smart Mag Beta-C into your rifle? It'll cost you more, because it has a lot of complex internal jiggers and far more complex ammo-feeding system, but you an still do it.

Also, unless you're okay with ejecting the round in the chamber to load the round that you want, you'll need to modify your weapon to interface with the smart mag, so it can unload the chambered round and return it to the smart mag.

Quote:
My big concern with double-barrel and multi-linked guns is that they have a sort of massive damage overkill scenario very easily; the maximum damage in vanilla EP is ~5d10+12, plus ammo bonuses (I think it caps at like 6d10+12 with ammo mods, but I might be wrong), and a quad-linked gun does, potentially, 10d10+24 [assuming no armor], which is admittedly for a machine gun, but even a pistol could wind up doing 10d10+8 damage. Hardening makes it somewhat better, but still falls victim to the huge-big double barrel rules.

My entire ethos behind this game doc is "fuck game balance, if it should work, it works." That said, dual and quad-mounted weapons are for weapon mount applications and single-shot applications only.

So sure, you can make yourself a pirate-style pepperbox pistol and kill a motherfucker dead with one trigger pull. You're also only gonna be able to do that once. Same with shotguns/sniper rifles. It takes balls and class to be using a break-action rifle in 2143. Also, you don't deal 10d10+24, even with a quad-barreled machine gun mount.

You deal 5d10+12 and 5d10+12. There is a difference; armor (what's left after your AP, anyway) applies to each roll individually, and each roll applies Wounds separately. Same with using a double-barreled sniper rifle. You're not going to be dealing 4d10+24 damage, you'll be dealing 2d10+12 and 2d10+12.

Quote:
In AUGC, I avoid modifying vanilla weapons at all. This is a season to taste decision, so I'm not necessarily criticizing you for it, but it may make adoption into play a little more difficult if people have to change what they're used to. Another thing to consider is that most weapons in EP are stated to have no recoil. IMO this is unrealistic, but I treat it as a canon rule and only artillery (once it's in AUGC) or really shoddy improvised weapons have recoil. This has the (potentially unwanted) side effect of meaning that yes, you can just shoulder that AMR and go to town.

I've always held that the no-recoil rule means that the rheological smart systems compensate for weapon torque moving your barrel off your target. They do not magically negate Newton's Third Law of Motion!

Basically, the no-recoil rule was the EP authors' way of avoiding the problem where you have, in Shadowrun, about five pages of nothing but rules regarding recoil and how it interacts with the silly ways players are going to be quad-wielding submachine guns.

Quote:
Typo: single-shot grenade pistol ss both concealable and reliable

Thanks, fixed.

Quote:
Again, season to taste, but the rifles feel a little non-punchy to me, while the beam weapons are huge-big "Oh, crap!" sources.

Other than that, it looks fairly good. Well done!

The Heavy Rifles are just an intermediate step between the ammunition of Autorifles/LMGs (in canon, "Machine Guns,") and the ammunition of the Sniper Rifles (Which I reckoned are the equivalent of HMGs.) The beam weapons are all-new guns, and were made because, quite frankly, the canon beam weapons are basically "Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Plasma Rifle, and some other shit nobody ever uses besides the stunner because they suuuuuuuck!."

So, I fixed that, and gave unto you some heavy energy weapons shamelessly stolen from Mass Effect 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and Dead Space. (And at the upper end, Battletech.)

The rifles will probably still be considerably more practical, though.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
The Five Orange Pips

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Also, Space Gods help me, now

Also, Space Gods help me, now I'm thinking about revising the vehicle rules to track shot locations and integrity separately...

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
The Five Orange Pips

jKaiser jKaiser's picture
Regarding the "recoilless"

Regarding the "recoilless" guns, when I read that section in the book I assumed they were working with an enhanced version of the Kriss Vector's recoil mitigation system, which is really mostly an engineering factor to redirect the energy more ergonomically than to magically make it disappear. The fact that most ammo is caseless too cuts down, since there are fewer moving parts, e.g. Metal Storm weapons (presumably less of a nightmare to reload, though.)

Honestly, I'd be shocked if those and a few other weapons weren't major guidelines for the original core weapons.

Otherwise so far, killer work here so far. I may be using this next time I have players that want to blow shit up, and I'll post the results in that case. Have the ladle ready.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
I think I may have to clarify

I think I may have to clarify my stances on recoil in the document.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
The Five Orange Pips

TheGrue TheGrue's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Also,

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Also, Space Gods help me, now I'm thinking about revising the vehicle rules to track shot locations and integrity separately...

Please do; vehicular combat could use some more depth to it.

(I myself am working on a codified system for chase scenes/dogfights analogous to the hacking flowchart :D )

Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
TheGrue wrote

TheGrue wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Also, Space Gods help me, now I'm thinking about revising the vehicle rules to track shot locations and integrity separately...

Please do; vehicular combat could use some more depth to it.

(I myself am working on a codified system for chase scenes/dogfights analogous to the hacking flowchart :D )

So, you guys wanna go full Battletech, eh?

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
The Five Orange Pips

TheGrue TheGrue's picture
Why the hell not? :D

Why the hell not? :D

I mean not for every situation obviously; but it would be nice to have some rules to use if and when that level of detail is appropriate.

Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal.

jKaiser jKaiser's picture
I want my Hellstar now. Heh.

I want my Hellstar now. Heh.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Sorry.

Sorry.

That was something I meant to do, but... Other things happened.
It's still a "would be nice to get around to doing," though.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
The Five Orange Pips