Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

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Moracai Moracai's picture
Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

Inspired by OneTrikPony's thread here: http://www.eclipsephase.com/quick-question-ok-actually-several

I got to finally analyse some of the gear.

It seems that you can get 500CP worth of "advantage" with just 50CP

Adrenal boost + Reflex boost + 1 dose of Kick = 26,000 credits (= 26CP) = +30 REF = 300CP

Cyberlimb x2 + muscle augmentation + hardened skeleton = 20,000 credits (=20CP) = +20 SOM = 200CP

Also you can get DUR quite cheap with gear when compared to the Tough trait, but because those are not mutually complatible, I won't go there. Also the bonuses granted to skill from gear are quite "off" when compared the price to get the skills and the price of the gear.

My proposed quick-fix hack would be to change the 1CP =1000 cred ratio to 1CP = 100 cred.

I have a longer fix too, but it invloves taking REF and WIL entirely out of the game, so I wont go there now, coz it would be quite long and I haven't had the chance to analyze it through (although now it seems that I'm very near completion)

Chase Chase's picture
Re: Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

Very nice! Just a few things:

For your REF equation you might try something more like this: Adrenal Boost + Endocrine Control + Reflex Boost + Drug Gland (Kick). Even so all the bonuses aren't constantly on. The kick needs time to work, and the adrenal boost has to be activated. I know as far as game mechanics right now go you could keep a constant flow of kick and adrenaline with no negative side effects (Other than the -5 COO from long term kick usage) but in real life you would begin to suffer huge medical problems and even if you got through those you would build up a resistance to both drugs

Your SOM idea works quite well, though it might be good to note that cyberlimb plus's cannot be masked so you could be suffering some social stigma from some people.

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

Thanks for the shout. :)

I do agree that some gear seems to give an incredible advantage for the Credit cost of the gear.
Here are some Low cost pieces of gear and their bonuses: (low cost ~ ¢250)

vision enhancement/hearing enhancement
+20 perception, +20 Kinesics (only in F2F)

gecko grip
+30 climbing,

pheremones
+10 Social skills, [i assume this is ALL social skills even networking but it only applies F2F]

The reason I question these types of bonuses for so little cost is because I can't bring myself to write up a character with out spending 1CP to have these installed.

However; I'm not sure this needs to be patched. The likely hood that you'll have more than a few missions in one setting is low. As soon as you have a mission in another habitat you'll have an entirely diferent morph and you'll either have to pay for these mods again or go without. The GM can easily and reasonably tell you that where you're going they don't have a custom morph for you. So if you want to have alot of augmentations you'll have to both pay to get upgraded and find someone who will do the work.

Now that I've finaly grasped this concept I'm haveing a hard time writeing characters that don't have Psi and alot of software, because those are the only things you can really take with you.

At 1000 credit / RES point and ~ 7 RES points / mission, augmentations get ALOT more expencive.

So I think it's fine the way it is. Unless your GM is a pussy or likes to give away the farm.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Mifune Mifune's picture
Re: Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

-sigh- STOP TRYING TO OPTIMIZE YOUR CHARACTER!! Do you think you're playing D&D 4E or something? This is a roleplaying game! (Now that I'm done making cracks at 4E.)

Sure, you can do all that for little to no money. But then you'll also have a social stigmata for being that obviously modified. You'll attract unwanted attention. And good luck getting into any secured places without having your cyberlimbs removed at the front door.

"Hack the Body, and the Mind Will Follow."
-Sheldon Surina
(Jump 225 Trilogy by David Louis Edelman)
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

Just...Can't...Stop..!Must...Minmax :D

I'm not so sure most mods are obvious. Vision enhancement and pheremones certainly aren't. medichines, aren't and you get +5 Dur for that. Infact I think that cyber arms and bioweave might be the only obvious bioware in the book.

AFAIC "Hey, I'm comming over to you're place tomorow. Throw a splicer in the tank for me. Start cooking up some Vision enhancemnt, Medichines, Pheremones, and Grip Pads. I'll do you an extra grand worth of favors while I'm there." should be my character's quote.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

standard_gravity standard_gravity's picture
Re: Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

Mifune wrote:
-sigh- STOP TRYING TO OPTIMIZE YOUR CHARACTER!! Do you think you're playing D&D 4E or something? This is a roleplaying game! (Now that I'm done making cracks at 4E.)

Totally agree! I am lucky that my players are mature enough (IMO) and we all agree that we play RPGs for the storytelling, the escapism, the character development, the intrigues, the acting. It also helps that I am not too bothered by the 1,000 point limit happy: players can have more or less if it would enhance the story / character.

This being said, things were different in my youth, of course, so I am the first to defend anyone's right to play EP in whatever way they'd like.

Mifune wrote:
Sure, you can do all that for little to no money. But then you'll also have a social stigmata for being that obviously modified. You'll attract unwanted attention. And good luck getting into any secured places without having your cyberlimbs removed at the front door.

Apart perhaps from some bioconservative or otherwise peculiar settings, most people are OK with most mods. This is what transhumanism is all about! It is when you start carrying very dangerous implants that you get attention, or when you modify your body and mind into something ex/posthuman.

"People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes." - John Dee

Zophiel Zophiel's picture
Re: Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

The reason mods and even morphs are, to my mind at least, very inexpensive at character creation are twofold. First, most of this stuff isn't that hard to get your hands on in-game. An infomorph with one good rep score can easily pick up the gear and body that another charatcer starts with. Conversely, gear and morphs are easy to lose. To my thinking, EP is a much more lethal RPG than many. Morphs can and go get killed. PC's do wind up being egocast and leaving their toys behind. Replacing your heavily customized morph is just as easy or hard for you as for the infomorph above. Same thing for your high end gear.

Those points spent on money and morphs do not represent a bank that you get to draw on every time they (and what you bought with them) are lost. If you want to minmax, build a re-instanced infomorph and acquire everything else through rep.

nick012000 nick012000's picture
Re: foreign online pharmacies

eclips wrote:
I’m impressed, you know what you’re talking about
*spam link censored*

I wish there was a Report Post button. Mods?

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Costs of cybernetics (& bioware & drugs)

Well, since this thread has been bot-necro'd, I might as well put my 2 cents in, for funsies.

The one major thing the OP missed in his calculations is the difference in value between gear and ego boosts. Always assume that gear is transient... 20 grand in implants is great, but can be hurled into the sun. Your ego bonuses are with you so long as you're backed up. As a firewall agent, you always must be prepared with the fact that at any time, you may lose whatever body you are currently using... and that means that you can't always rely on the effectiveness of your purchases. You can, however, always rely on the skills you have, and your aptitudes.

In a post scarcity setting, knowledge and experience are far more powerful than equipment.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.