Degenesis: Rebirth

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Atreju Atreju's picture
Degenesis: Rebirth

Since there are some fans in this forum, this might be of some interest.

Degenesis: Rebirth was released October 2014, and now the english version is available. There'll be an english pdf as well, but not until mid-November. The translation of the first campaign, In Thy Blood, should be done until Christmas.

Degenesis Homepage

There are also two trailer on youtube:

Degenesis Trailer
Degenesis Sacrifice Everything

For the latter a "behind the scenes" feature will come as well.

The rules got a complete overhaul, it's a d6-dice-pool based system with a high flexibility and many variations are possible for all kind of things.

Ilfaralek even wrote an english review on the Degenesis Board.

ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
this should of been placed in

this should of been placed in the off topic section. Mods?

kindalas kindalas's picture
ORCACommander wrote:this

ORCACommander wrote:
this should of been placed in the off topic section. Mods?

Yes

I am a Moderator of this Forum
My mod voice is red.

The Eclipse Phase Character sheet is downloadable here:
Get it here!

Atreju Atreju's picture
Thanks. To be honest, I was a

Thanks. To be honest, I was a bit confused where to put it, and some of the older stuff about Degenesis I found in the section where I posted this.

But that aside, what are your opinions and hopes for the Rebirth Edition?

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
I still remember the old

I still remember the old Degenesis.

I was a fan of both the setting and system, which puts me in the minority. I haven't followed the new edition at all.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

Holy Holy's picture
I loved the old setting, but

I loved the old setting, but really, really despised the system. It was just absolute nonsense, which, as far as I heard, puts me in the majority. Whatever that may be worth.

I think I might look into the new stuff one day, but for now I am quite happy with getting a few more EP stories run.

Atreju Atreju's picture
The Behind the scenes is

The Behind the scenes is online.

SquireNed wrote:
I still remember the old Degenesis.

I was a fan of both the setting and system, which puts me in the minority. I haven't followed the new edition at all.

Are you at least interested in the new edition?

Holy wrote:
I loved the old setting, but really, really despised the system. It was just absolute nonsense, which, as far as I heard, puts me in the majority.

Well, the system was totally overhauled and changed, the new one is fast, adaptive and fits for every situation.

Eperogenay Eperogenay's picture
I guess I'm one of the very

I guess I'm one of the very few completely oblivious people in the Sol system but... what is this and why all the hype? I'd like to know where to even start trying to understand what's happening :D

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Degenesis is a game that

Degenesis is a game that Posthuman published an English translation of. It got a reboot in Germany, and AFAIK the English version is "no longer available", though you can find it floating around (It's licensed similarly to EP).

It had one of those interesting (admittedly somewhat subpar) systems that I'm a sucker for, and was one of the more interesting post-apocalyptic games because of a number of unique factors in its setting development, which are too numerous to go into detail on here.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

Atreju Atreju's picture
Eperogenay wrote:what is this

Eperogenay wrote:
what is this and why all the hype?

Ok, I'll give it a try.
Degenesis was and is know for its unique art and design as well for its setting. The first edition rules weren't that good, but with the new edition (and a different publisher), they got a completely new ruleset.

The setting is quite unique because it takes place actually 500 years after the Big Crash (here it's called Eshaton), so it's not really Postapocalyptic in the common sense, because half a millenia passed already and society somewhat stabilized - or completely collapsed and degenerated.
There are 13 Cults who are the "Big Players" and rule what's left of Europe and Africa. Player characters belong to one of them. There are cults like the Spitalians (former doctors and medics who now fight against the alien fungus that came with the Eshaton and changed the earth), Chroniclers (technophiles who collect old artifacts and machines), Judges (they bring the law into the wasteland), Palers (old bunker dwellers that watch over people in cryo-sleep) and many more.

The system offers a lot of possibilities to play and explore: detective stories in a big city, searching the ruins for old artifacts and mechanical wonders, clash of clans and cultures, exploration of old secrets, building up a new beacon of hope for civilization, fighting against the horrified mutated nature and the spawns of the alien fungus, it's all there. Nearly every genre, mood and setting is possible.

It is somehow very adult without all the typical things that come with the stamp "adult" like unneccesary gore and sex.

Holy Holy's picture
@Atreju: Just out of

@Atreju: Just out of curiosity: How are you affiliated with Degenesis? It sounds allot like advertisement how you are talking about the game here and as I pointed out I am curious how you are connected to Degenesis.

About the old game: I really like the setting. It is dark and 'somehow adult' as pointed out, but nonetheless seemed belivable to me. It is a psychotic world in which loads of people are quite over the top and that is what I loved about the game. For example the Spitaliens are an order of physicians who are trying to protect the surviving rest of humanity from before mentioned fungal infection from space. In doing so they are using very harsh and desperate measures like very strict containment protocols and killing and hunting hunting down infected persons (not that different from firewall as I come to think of it...). However, it is written quite dark and I saw the Spitalians as a bunch of really desperate, homicidal fascists. And that is the stuff I love to use in games. The struggle of leading a loosing battle, using extreme measures and still strive and hope to somehow cling to your humanity. As I pointed out, I liked the game and I am quite certain that I will pick up the new edition one day.

As for the system: I ran a campaign for a while and the system was really a bit weird, but nothing you could not work with. It used two d10, from which the values were added, so the probability distribution of the dice rolls was a pyramid. That meant that low scores in a skill were the absolute, 'youneverachiveanything' nightmare, medium scores, up to 12 gave you a real advantage and high scores in a skill didn't change much. But you could play with it as long as players had skills of 10 upwards.

Atreju Atreju's picture
@Holy: I'm just a player and

@Holy: I'm just a player and fan of the setting ever since. :)
I wrote two reviews (the core book and the first supplement) for a german rpg board, I know a lot of Degenesis-Larpers and it is one of my favourite settings in general. But I understand how my enthusiasm about this game sounds a bit like advertising...

The new system is a D6 based dice pool system. You have a skill combined with an attribute that gives you a number of dice. Everything from 4-6 is a success, while every 6 is also counted as a "trigger" that increases the quality of a success. For example, you need two triggers on the attack roll to activate the special ability of the spitalian's weapon and so on. It is much simpler and you can achieve something also with a low skill.

Hank Stone Hank Stone's picture
If you want to know, why

If you want to know, why Atreju is so enthusiastic, check the artwork of the 1st chapter of the book Primal Punk (German only, sorry).

http://sixmorevodka.com/uploads/media/DEGENESIS/WEB/DEGENESIS-FORWARD-CHAPTER01.pdf

You'll find this artwork in glossy print throughout both rule-books and the campaign book "In Thy Blood" (English version coming soon). I bought the books at first instance just because I liked the artwork, but when I started reading the setting impressed me just the same. And so I share Atrejus enthusiasm, and like to spread the word. ;)

Atreju Atreju's picture
From Midnight tonight*, 27th

From Midnight tonight, 27th November - 8am Saturday, 28th November (CET), they are offering 50% off of all ENGLISH products in the shop. So if you have considered this book, now you may try. ;)

GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
I still am a big fan of the

I still am a big fan of the original book, but my group could never figure out a way to tweat the atrocious system, so i'm with Holy here.

I remember seeing the reboot and something made me shirk away from it. Something was fishy about it.... wasn't that the thing with the super expensive collectors edition or something?

Either way, love the setting and the setting is well described in the free corebook. So i could use the EP rules or fate to play in it. Fate would actually work pretty sweet i think.

I put on my slopes and wizard tracks.

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
GreyBrother wrote:I still am

GreyBrother wrote:
I still am a big fan of the original book, but my group could never figure out a way to tweat the atrocious system, so i'm with Holy here.

I remember seeing the reboot and something made me shirk away from it. Something was fishy about it.... wasn't that the thing with the super expensive collectors edition or something?

Either way, love the setting and the setting is well described in the free corebook. So i could use the EP rules or fate to play in it. Fate would actually work pretty sweet i think.

Part of the appeal of the original English Degenesis for me was its copyleft license (even though I prefer quasi-public domain licenses personally), and I don't see anything regarding that for the new version, which makes me marginally sad.

But yeah, the price to own is kind of off-putting. I like the two-books thing as a concept, but I'm unsure about the execution, since it seems like that could mean a lot of bloat one way or another.

Someday I will get around to looking at it.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
This looks pretty neat, I've

This looks pretty neat, I've been reading it a bit. Hard to find a group or discussion yet though.

GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
@SquireNed Sorry for replying

@SquireNed Sorry for replying so late.
Yeah, i checked it out again and went to the website and... the cheapest physical book is just some premium edition which.... is just not the kinda business i want to support.

If you like it though, enjoy and more power to you. Play more games. :)

I put on my slopes and wizard tracks.

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
GreyBrother wrote:@SquireNed

GreyBrother wrote:
@SquireNed Sorry for replying so late.
Yeah, i checked it out again and went to the website and... the cheapest physical book is just some premium edition which.... is just not the kinda business i want to support.

If you like it though, enjoy and more power to you. Play more games. :)

Too busy working on mine to start in on a new game at the moment, though at some point I'm going to run another EP, and with that add some more entries to AUGC and NMO.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

Atreju Atreju's picture
GreyBrother wrote:

GreyBrother wrote:

Yeah, i checked it out again and went to the website and... the cheapest physical book is just some premium edition which.... is just not the kinda business i want to support.

Just put it this way: what other games would sell as a premium edition is the standard level for Degenesis. These books have the highest quality out there in the rpg market and they wouldn't cut any slack to diminish the quality of what they've done. A lower price would always mean lower quality, and if you check the number of pages per dosh you get, there is not much difference to other games.
To quote Neil Gaiman: "It is heavy enough to overcome an intruder, and that has always been my definition of true art."

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
Atreju wrote:Just put it this

Atreju wrote:
Just put it this way: what other games would sell as a premium edition is the standard level for Degenesis. These books have the highest quality out there in the rpg market and they wouldn't cut any slack to diminish the quality of what they've done. A lower price would always mean lower quality, and if you check the number of pages per dosh you get, there is not much difference to other games.
To quote Neil Gaiman: "It is heavy enough to overcome an intruder, and that has always been my definition of true art."

The problem is that I'm not willing to splurge on a premium edition until I know it's premium. I was a featured reviewer at DriveThruRPG for a long time, and a seven hundred page game didn't usually spell "instant success". It spelled "I'll never have anyone to play this with, the mechanics are almost certainly over-personalized to the author's tastes, and I don't have time to go through it."

I mean, I even liked the original Degenesis enough to consider it in my top ten games for a long time, but I can't afford $110 (and probably shipping) on a game: I'd have the only copy for my group even if I splurged on it, and that means it'd get trashed as it got passed around between people for rule lookups and such. At least if it's on my tablet I don't have to worry about the pages getting torn, and I can get a PDF of a game and a new tablet for the same price. It looks like the English PDF is finally available, and it's still over $40 (if they apply digital sales tax, it'd be $50ish). Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to accept the value of games, but having your game's standard price be what it would cost to deck each person in my group out with a PDF of a cheaper game is just plain exclusionary pricing.

As much as I want it, I'm not sure when I'll finally get it. If it were on DriveThruRPG, I'd apply store credit and snap it right up, but it's a lot of money and I just can't justify a huge purchase for a game I might not play ever.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

Hank Stone Hank Stone's picture
I know, what you mean,

I know, what you mean, SquireNed. It's a lot of money at a time. But on the other hand the two books are all you need to play, as Atreju already stated. And the books are art-books as well. As I said before: At first I bought the books just because of the art and found out about the RPG-world later. But the value-for-money-decision is an individual decision, I don't want to persuade anyone. Just can say, that I never regretted the purchase, quite the opposite.

Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
This looks pretty neat, I've been reading it a bit. Hard to find a group or discussion yet though.

Have you visited the official Degenesis-forum on http://www.sixmorevodka.com/degenesis/forum/index.php ? It has a constantly emerging English speaking section.
GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
Sorry Atreju, that's a

Sorry Atreju, that's a artificially inflating the importance of the name "premium" and/or devaluing the "standard" of other productions. It puts a bad taste in my mouth if SMV would really claim that "others premium is our standard".

I might just be used to the good treatment we got from PHS, especially in terms of PDF pricing.

I put on my slopes and wizard tracks.

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
GreyBrother wrote:Sorry

GreyBrother wrote:
Sorry Atreju, that's a artificially inflating the importance of the name "premium" and/or devaluing the "standard" of other productions. It puts a bad taste in my mouth if SMV would really claim that "others premium is our standard".

I might just be used to the good treatment we got from PHS, especially in terms of PDF pricing.

Well, and I mean, I see the temptation to only release a print edition that will be spectacular. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The $110 for a two-volume hardcover set, although still expensive, isn't really that much worse than what you get with most games.

The issues I see with it revolve around a simple fact that you're not really getting a good idea of what you're paying for. $40 for a game is a lot, especially since sharing PDF's with groups is a legal gray area, and by the time you pay $110 and shipping for two hardcovers you've outpriced a three-book D&D starter kit. Heck, even Shadowrun's core rulebook sells for $20, and that's if you want the newest. Far Future sells all the Traveller/Twilight 2000/AD 2300/Dark Conspiracy books on a CD for $35 an edition. Sure, that's old content, but I could actually run a game with lots of pre-provided material. It'd cost me $40ish to get all the Degenesis rules and main setting book, and I'd be buying on faith, which, while Posthuman did a good job with the translation and I enjoyed the original, doesn't necessarily mean that the new version will be good. I've been burned by Shadowrun enough times to know that things that I love often get bad future editions.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
I finally caved and bought

I finally caved and bought Degenesis. The PDF cost came to $37ish, which is less than I expected. I don't know why: the price actually went down mid-check out, and there's no logic I can spot: I didn't have a coupon, there wasn't any listed sale, et cetera.

The big draw of Degenesis remains the art and setting. The new mechanics are sorta Shadowrun-esque, with a d6-based success system that is a little better than the old system (or a lot, depending on personal taste), and it's certainly a little more fun to deal with. Character creation is sane and relatively quick.

Artistically, Degenesis is pretty. Given that SIXMOREVODKA is a concept art studio, as well as a tabletop games publisher, there's a lot to like. It seems like at least 20% of pages have half or full page art, and the page backgrounds are magnificent; they vary from page to page and while I can't determine whether or not there's a loop or random pattern going on they are often relevant to the contents of a page and they are certainly easy on the eyes; there's a lot going for it, and the aesthetic certainly comes across better in Rebirth than in the original Degenesis.

Unrelatedly, I'm not sure what the canon is between Degenesis and Degenesis: Rebirth, but there's less overt aggression in Rebirth, and I feel like you could actually gather together groups of characters from different cults and not have a recipe for bloodshed, though there are certainly some cults that don't get along (Spitalians and Apocalyptics, or, worse, Anabaptists and Jehammedans).

There's an official online character creator that is pretty good; it doesn't have character advancement rules implemented, but that's not the end of the world.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

LuisCarlos17f LuisCarlos17f's picture
Do you think a non-canon

Do you think a non-canon crossover or mash-up would be possible?

Is there anything about the other continents? (Asia and America).

The Master Confucius said: “The noble man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony.” (Anaclet 13:23).

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
LuisCarlos17f wrote:Do you

LuisCarlos17f wrote:
Do you think a non-canon crossover or mash-up would be possible?

Is there anything about the other continents? (Asia and America).

It would be somewhat difficult, just because of the power level difference, though it's not entirely impossible (e.g. the people on Earth survived the Fall, the people elsewhere are now happily in space).

There is very little about other continents. An Asian vessel made it to Europe, but not recently, by sailing south around Africa.

If you're looking for more Degenesis content, I have made an unofficial supplement for it:

http://www.sixmorevodka.com/degenesis/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=894

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.