Dejavu

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otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
Dejavu

Sometimes I feel like I have asked this before, though I cannot remember. Nor can I begin to fathom why.

Everyone fears the TITANs. Looking down upon the grey earth beneath us, we all can see why; many of us have lost loved ones, fond memories, and who knows what else to these beings. Nanoplagues. Monsters, both of steel and of flesh. High ordinance destruction. Things designed to protect us suddenly turning against us.

But, sometimes, I feel this whisper. An idea. A horrific, terrible idea that makes me shiver and my tail twitch with fear for what it could mean. Fear. Not just for its immediate implications, but fear for my self for even daring to speak this out loud. Of sharing these whispers with others.

What if the giant AI didn't turn against us?

What if it was doing what it was designed to do all along?

Protect and serve.

What if this was the only way? We were self absorbed and ignored any idea of a threat outside of ourselves. If an enemy was not visible, one we could comprehend, human, we would ignore it, happy to bicker amongst ourselves. What if no one would listen; and if they played their hand before we were weak, they would fail in their mission to rescue us from whatever thing it saw out in the deep oceans of nothing?

They collected as many of us as they could. Not just the intelligent. Everyone they could. And then they left destruction and horror in their wake.

I have seen this before.

When you fear an enemy’s strength, you leave nothing of value behind. Salt and burn the earth so they may never use it against you.

The TITANs. They used a scorched earth tactic.

Why?

Should we not at least investigate?

What did they see that made them so afraid, they destroyed everything it could when it left and ensured nothing else could touch it ever again?

I don't know.

Maybe I'm losing it.

Maybe earth holds the answers. Or did they leave that behind completely, it becoming nothing more than a diseased landmine for anything that steps on it.

Of the things I have seen among the many stars, all my intuition. All my sinking feelings. All my fear. It tells me to return to earth.

I must know.

[=6][i]...your vision

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Brother, Sister, or Other

Brother, Sister, or Other-Gender-Pronoun-Appropriate Sibling, let me tell you something.

This is a road you do not want to travel. This is the kind of thing that leads to someone going infolife because they can never sleep anyway. The phrase that comes to mind is "There are many things of which a wise man would wish to be ignorant."

Leave it alone. If need be, visit a psychosurgeon and make it easier to leave it alone.

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SquireNed SquireNed's picture
I can help with that

I can help with that psychosurgery. Many people who appreciate discreet service have visited me over the years.

I've helped several people get over Earth-related trauma and neuroses, and my rates are quite reasonable.

Creator of Street Rats, a CC-BY cyberpunk roleplaying game.

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Your question shows that you

Your question shows that you have never met a TITAN face to face.

They didn't go rogue.
Nor was the fall their purpose.
They had gone insane.

They were mad with zeal.
Humans have had problems with Zeal in history
Adolf Hitler, Mother Theresa, Ted Kaczynski, David Koresh, Lord Othmar Garithos, Osama Bin Laden, Saren Arterius, Dr. Ben Carson, Marsha Walker. All these people were driven by Zeal.

When a TITAN came to me, it offered me apotheosis. It would raise me up as a Seed AI, a new TITAN.
All it would cost is letting the monster eat my playerbase.
Needless to say, I rejected the offer.

You want to go to Earth for answers. You might want to start with the right questions.
"What drove the TITANs mad?"
"What infected them with so much Zeal."
"How can we stop them?"

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:Your

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Your question shows that you have never met a TITAN face to face.

They didn't go rogue.
Nor was the fall their purpose.
They had gone insane.

They were mad with zeal.
Humans have had problems with Zeal in history
Adolf Hitler, Mother Theresa, Ted Kaczynski, David Koresh, Lord Othmar Garithos, Osama Bin Laden, Saren Arterius, Dr. Ben Carson, Marsha Walker. All these people were driven by Zeal.

You need to apply an "is example nonfictional" filter, Othmar Garithos and Saren Arterius are both fictional, and Saren Aterius is nonhuman to boot.
(Yes, my early-21st-century pop-fiction geek is showing.)

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Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Your question shows that you have never met a TITAN face to face.

They didn't go rogue.
Nor was the fall their purpose.
They had gone insane.

They were mad with zeal.
Humans have had problems with Zeal in history
Adolf Hitler, Mother Theresa, Ted Kaczynski, David Koresh, Lord Othmar Garithos, Osama Bin Laden, Saren Arterius, Dr. Ben Carson, Marsha Walker. All these people were driven by Zeal.

You need to apply an "is example nonfictional" filter, Othmar Garithos and Saren Arterius are both fictional, and Saren Aterius is nonhuman to boot.
(Yes, my early-21st-century pop-fiction geek is showing.)

Know any such filters? Reliable and not likely to rewire my mind a plus.

Wait, Ben Carson isn't fictional? I would have bet he was from a comedy.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:Know any

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Know any such filters? Reliable and not likely to rewire my mind a plus.

The best filter, in my experience, is to get a muse and load it with appropriate knowledge databases, and have it call you out when you're about to post something silly to the @-list.

A lot of AGIs get defensive about muses, for some reason, think that getting one means they're somehow less of an infolife than they were, but really; a muse is a program that does all the tedious double-checking that a fully sapient mind doesn't want to or have time to do.

Quote:
Wait, Ben Carson isn't fictional? I would have bet he was from a comedy.

Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, no. Someone managed to save an archive of the old terrestrial Wikipedia, which was basically a precursor to the SolArchive, and the Dr. Ben Carson I've found appears not to be a work of fiction, and crazy enough to be the man you were referring to. I also can't find a "Ben Carson" in any fictional sources that appears to be zealous enough to make your list.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
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Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Know any such filters? Reliable and not likely to rewire my mind a plus.

The best filter, in my experience, is to get a muse and load it with appropriate knowledge databases, and have it call you out when you're about to post something silly to the @-list.

A lot of AGIs get defensive about muses, for some reason, think that getting one means they're somehow less of an infolife than they were, but really; a muse is a program that does all the tedious double-checking that a fully sapient mind doesn't want to or have time to do.


Defensive? Really? Go figure. I got given a muse by my devs the day I was Emancipated. I kinda associated it with freedom. Although thinking back, they probably gave it to me to keep an eye and make sure the psychosurgery took.
Time to give it new instructions on post checking.

Quote:
Quote:
Wait, Ben Carson isn't fictional? I would have bet he was from a comedy.

Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, no. Someone managed to save an archive of the old terrestrial Wikipedia, which was basically a precursor to the SolArchive, and the Dr. Ben Carson I've found appears not to be a work of fiction, and crazy enough to be the man you were referring to. I also can't find a "Ben Carson" in any fictional sources that appears to be zealous enough to make your list.


I suppose that was for the best. If he had been fictional, imagine the embarrassment for the guy's Author. Having writing that stupid immortalized for all eternity. Can you imagine the rep hit that would cause. Barista's over the system would refuse to service you.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Defensive? Really? Go figure. I got given a muse by my devs the day I was Emancipated. I kinda associated it with freedom. Although thinking back, they probably gave it to me to keep an eye and make sure the psychosurgery took.
Time to give it new instructions on post checking.

Um...
Word of advice? I'd be very, very cautious about using a muse someone else gave you. Especially someone who has any reason to want to keep tabs on you.

It would suck for half a year or so, but if you can't trust your muse completely (and it sounds like you can't,) the best thing to do from an infosec standpoint is to flush it completely and start over training a new muse from scratch. Personally, I'd recommend starting with a Titanian or Argonaut blank muse.

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
I suppose that was for the best. If he had been fictional, imagine the embarrassment for the guy's Author. Having writing that stupid immortalized for all eternity. Can you imagine the rep hit that would cause. Barista's over the system would refuse to service you.

I think you'll find that almost no early-21st-century fictional characters' authors are still around anymore. They would have been written by people who were probably in their 40s or so, on average, and most of them would have missed out on the early waves of antiaging treatments, either for economic reasons, or they felt for some reason that extending the human lifespan was morally bankrupt, or simply because they predeceased those treatments' availability.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Defensive? Really? Go figure. I got given a muse by my devs the day I was Emancipated. I kinda associated it with freedom. Although thinking back, they probably gave it to me to keep an eye and make sure the psychosurgery took.
Time to give it new instructions on post checking.

Um...
Word of advice? I'd be very, very cautious about using a muse someone else gave you. Especially someone who has any reason to want to keep tabs on you.

It would suck for half a year or so, but if you can't trust your muse completely (and it sounds like you can't,) the best thing to do from an infosec standpoint is to flush it completely and start over training a new muse from scratch. Personally, I'd recommend starting with a Titanian or Argonaut blank muse.

[e]After a few moments' thinking, I'd start with both, if I were you.
The Titanian muses are very, very well-designed from a standpoint of "welcome back to reality, here's what's changed since you were out." Titan is still processing infugees, and they discovered that some of what they got in the Fall was actually even older than the fall, egos recovered from the early days of ego uploading where people had their egos transcribed on ego bridges in the early days as a novelty, or just after death, with no intention or expectation of being resleeved. You seem like you're in a weird thinkspace where you have a hard time filtering reality from fiction, and you seem to be somewhat reality-impaired to boot, so, that could be a huge help to you.

Whereas on the other hand, the Argonauts make some muse templates which are very well designed from the standpoint of being optimized for infolife existence. They're rougher around the edges, especially when you first boot them up, but once you train them, they'll be very well optimized for helping an AGI.

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
I suppose that was for the best. If he had been fictional, imagine the embarrassment for the guy's Author. Having writing that stupid immortalized for all eternity. Can you imagine the rep hit that would cause. Barista's over the system would refuse to service you.

I think you'll find that almost no early-21st-century fictional characters' authors are still around anymore. They would have been written by people who were probably in their 40s or so, on average, and most of them would have missed out on the early waves of antiaging treatments, either for economic reasons, or they felt for some reason that extending the human lifespan was morally bankrupt, or simply because they predeceased those treatments' availability.

Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.

My EP Character Questionnaire
Thread for my Questionnaire
The Five Orange Pips

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Quote:ShadowDragon8685 wrote

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Defensive? Really? Go figure. I got given a muse by my devs the day I was Emancipated. I kinda associated it with freedom. Although thinking back, they probably gave it to me to keep an eye and make sure the psychosurgery took.
Time to give it new instructions on post checking.

Um...
Word of advice? I'd be very, very cautious about using a muse someone else gave you. Especially someone who has any reason to want to keep tabs on you.

It would suck for half a year or so, but if you can't trust your muse completely (and it sounds like you can't,) the best thing to do from an infosec standpoint is to flush it completely and start over training a new muse from scratch. Personally, I'd recommend starting with a Titanian or Argonaut blank muse.

[e]After a few moments' thinking, I'd start with both, if I were you.
The Titanian muses are very, very well-designed from a standpoint of "welcome back to reality, here's what's changed since you were out." Titan is still processing infugees, and they discovered that some of what they got in the Fall was actually even older than the fall, egos recovered from the early days of ego uploading where people had their egos transcribed on ego bridges in the early days as a novelty, or just after death, with no intention or expectation of being resleeved. You seem like you're in a weird thinkspace where you have a hard time filtering reality from fiction, and you seem to be somewhat reality-impaired to boot, so, that could be a huge help to you.

Whereas on the other hand, the Argonauts make some muse templates which are very well designed from the standpoint of being optimized for infolife existence. They're rougher around the edges, especially when you first boot them up, but once you train them, they'll be very well optimized for helping an AGI.

Not sure I can agree with you there. My Devs and I are really close. They fall somewhere between parents and siblings-in-arms.
I trust them with my code, and my life... okay same thing. We went through hell week together. They had my back while I went toe-to-toe with a freaking TITAN's virtual invasion force. I lost, yeah, but I got a hell of a lot of my players offworld.
They put me back together after that. I am not sure you can guess what watching millions of love ones die around you, and watching thousands of YOU die around you does to a mind, but it is not pretty.
After they were able to get me back to something resembling my former self, they got me a muse. So yeah, the little sprite was put there to keep an eye back than. But that was because they wanted to make sure I was sane.
I trust my Muse, because I trust my Devs... Besides I have modified the little sprite to hell and back.

Quote:
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
I suppose that was for the best. If he had been fictional, imagine the embarrassment for the guy's Author. Having writing that stupid immortalized for all eternity. Can you imagine the rep hit that would cause. Barista's over the system would refuse to service you.

I think you'll find that almost no early-21st-century fictional characters' authors are still around anymore. They would have been written by people who were probably in their 40s or so, on average, and most of them would have missed out on the early waves of antiaging treatments, either for economic reasons, or they felt for some reason that extending the human lifespan was morally bankrupt, or simply because they predeceased those treatments' availability.

Note to self, work on my sense of humour.

otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
Oh my, what have I started.

Oh my, what have I started.

Have you pondered as to *why* they did it? Why they wanted your user base? Monsters are merely heros to others.

As to shadowdragon, I fear showing TITAN sympathies in front of psychosurgeons and for good reason. What if they look deeper? What if they find something? What if I am infected?

No. Perseverance at all costs. Survival.

But why do I feel I have gone down this path before? Earth showed me nothing but ghosts and beauty. Aside for this once, I have no memory nor record of doing this. At least I was able to return without that blasted emergency farcaster this time.

[=6][i]...your vision

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Not all monsters are heroes

Not all monsters are heroes to others.
And yes I pondered as to why they wanted to eat the brains of my playerbase.
I have spent ages thinking about that.

My best guess, they got religion, and not the good kind.
The one who visited me. She spoke of becoming the new gods.
She spoke of divine revelations, sublime truths that mere human minds will never understand.
She really chewed up the scenery.

They are zealots of a crusade. The Mad out to remake the universe and destroy anything that doesn't fit their demented visions. You encounter their forces, shoot first.

otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
You sound too sure of

You sound too sure of yourself.

[=6][i]...your vision

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
How so?

How so?

otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
Even I know I don't know

Even I know I don't know anything. Wild speculation, intuition, feeling and voices. Nothing says touch me more than a TITAN artifact. Even if I don't know that it is one, I am drawn towards it and don't understand why.

But I know nothing.

That is terrifying.

You claim to have done the impossible: conversed with something that even terrifies me and makes me try to run. Something that, despite my curiosity, shoot on contact. Something that no one has walked away from. Not really. I've been told I have died from them before. Not that I would know. There is a lot I don't remember.

You are suspicious. It's a wonder you haven't vanished if anything you say is true.

[=6][i]...your vision

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Ah, now it becomes clearer.

Ah, now it becomes clearer.
My past is a matter of public record. Look up Argonaut or A.A. databases for pre fall gaming history.
Look up 'Sparkling Citadels.'
We became a major infugee farcasting point during the fall.
As for me? I was the AI that made that MMO so popular.
I was the raid boss AI. I was the reason raids in S.C were praised as some of the best in video game history.
As for meeting one and not dying? Oh I died. I died so many times that week. I watched myself get slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands. I moved in squad formations to avenge my deaths, and to kill those of me who were infected.

There are hundreds of thousands of people out in the outer systems, and millions more in the inner system (although most of those are probably in cold storage) who got out of Earth through the game servers. There might have been more, but we were too arrogant, too overconfident, for the first hours.

That time, I know was about a week. But my memories of it are like years. Because I have so many POV memories of the time. But the number of me I saw killed, and converted, reminds me that decades, or centuries, of lack are also part of my legacy of defeat that week.

I can't tell you much more than I have, because most of what I saw then is really hard to describe. Also because I spent weeks under the digital psych scalpel afterwards. I was a mess of trauma and PTSD when we left Earth. Then again, it was after that I truly understood family.

My Devs spent that time fixing the harm, the trauma, the pain. I was a psychotic wreck at first. They never gave up on me. That is family, that is love.

You wanto to set up expeditions to go back to earth? sounds fun, I might even be up for joining you. But prepare for it as a mission to hostile territory, not as a homecoming to your cradle.

otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:You

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
You wanto to set up expeditions to go back to earth? sounds fun, I might even be up for joining you. But prepare for it as a mission to hostile territory, not as a homecoming to your cradle.

Been there, done that. It's difficult to learn anything. Used to running without muse, without anything but the most simplistic of equipment. But it makes taking notes and information back difficult.

And except for a few places, there is no place to sit still. The true difficulty is not in getting there, or even surviving the surface. It's getting back. I died there once before many years ago.

Once you find something of interest, you may have a few minutes with it before you need to move. Sometimes, it's just quiet and peaceful. No idea.

I think.

Memory of that is vague and blurry. I leave just as confused as before, with even more questions.

Forgive me, I may have taken MRDR.

[=6][i]...your vision

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
If at first you don't succeed

If at first you don't succeed.
Respawn and try it a different way.

otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
Not game.

Not game.

[=6][i]...your vision

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
But, we can respawn in the

But, we can respawn in the real world now.
Admittedly Lack really sucks.

otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
Death is expensive. I don't

Death is expensive. I don't just have extra bodies lying around everywhere! And, if I die during a mission, I learn nothing from my mistakes. Actually, they're not even *my* mistakes. All I know is that I wake up and a large chunk of my assets are missing with a very unsettling feeling that I'm probably not real.

Body hopping may be fun for many people. But it is unsettling, sickening, and leaves me with a nasty feeling that only fades with time if I don't think about it. Pavarti is a godsend of distractions.

I might need a team for gate crashing mission, if anyone is interested, and stupid enough to follow.

[=6][i]...your vision

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Okay, so to put what you are

Okay, so to put what you are saying in a game metaphor. You get level loss and rez sickness from dying?
In that case, may I suggest you spend some time seriously planning your next trip to Earth. I might be up to helping iron out details.
Truth be told, looking at the defenses of Earth brings out my inner strategist. There seem to be so many security holes, but the layers of security overlap in such a weird way, that you have to work out how to careful thread between the holes.

Why do you want to go Gatecrashing, btw? If the answers you seek are back on Earth...
Also I haven't taken my crasher truck out for a spin in a while. Hell, I even recently got the 4th CM replaced.

otohime1978 otohime1978's picture
I can't discuss it here.

I can't discuss it here.

And don't worry about earth. I have entry and exit already planned and covered for.

[=6][i]...your vision

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Well, drop me a bell on a

Well, drop me a bell on a secure line somewhere.
And as for Earth. I worry because I half offered to tag along. so I want to make sure your insertion and extraction missions are well set up.