DIY equipment

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templariomaster templariomaster's picture
DIY equipment

I have some question about the equipment matter.

So I have a ship, with a fusion engine(with whatever fuel EP fusion engines uses) and a fabber inside the ship so people can use schematics to make on their way to missions(or to repair things inside the ship) the question is:

How limited is a fabber to make equipment?

A fabber its supposed to have a limit with the materials involved, but an EP weapons has a ton of materials starting from the shock gel to the batteries and electronics and the ammo, and if I make a printed weapon, do I have a quality limit? I mean, there has to be a difference between a full cornucopia and a fabber in this matter, and the weapon just pops up or just its parts?

Im wondering this, because if I have infosec at over 9000 I can pirate every single schematic I want and just wait for the fabber to do it for me, then whats the point of having hardware: armorer skill? Or almost any hardware: anything if I can pirate the solution.

And is there a difference between open-source equipment and private equipment? As I understand from EP there is no difference, but that would mean, by the nature of anarchism, that everyone can have an armor at the only cost of the materials involved, not money or reputation.

Note: Another question, is kids in EP have enhaced bodies wen they born in the exowombs? Or to preserve them from things like the futura their bodies are flats?

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
The limit on a fabber is that

The limit on a fabber is that each one is designed to make a single thing, much like makers can only make food. So, you may have a tool fabber to make hammers and scalpels and such, a medicine fabber designed to make bandages, painkillers, and medicine, or an electronics fabber that can make ectos and other small electronics. You can't have a fabber that makes anything, that's what a CM is for.

As for the hardware skill, you may as well ask what use the medicine skill has when medichines are an option, or most of the knowledge skills. However, there are plenty of niche uses for these skills, and you may be able to find ingenious uses for them. When it comes to fabbers, hardware: Armorer alongside Programming is how you would construct your very own blueprint. While you CAN obtain blueprints people have already made, humanity has not made everything yet, or the information may not be available to you. In addition, you may be able to modify the weapon as well, such as a lower caliber version of a gun suited for small morphs.

Imagine, for example, you're in the middle of Luna and you need a highly specialized weapon. You know for a fact that this weapon exists, but there's one problem: There isn't a single database on Luna with the blueprints. It's common on the outer rim, but here you're lucky to find anyone who's even heard of it. Or, for a more extreme example, consider needing ANY blueprint when you're stranded out in space on a derelict spacestation.

In addition, the hardware skill can come in handy for situations where it would be impracticable to use a CM or fabber. Such as if something needs to be fixed NOW.

templariomaster templariomaster's picture
Aaaah! Thanks.

Aaaah! Thanks.

But, still property in anarcho-comunism is collective, therefore players can simply go to Locus and start downloading the entire open-source database and even experimental designs without much effort(no reputation or credit loss).

To make things fair I have to make the equipment of other factions attractive,, but how? The anarchist equipment should have the same quality as the equipment of other factions.

DrewDavis DrewDavis's picture
Quality wise the equipment is

Quality wise the equipment is a good (maybe. Metals are still a hard thing to find in the outer system), but open source equipment tends to be utilitarian in nature. This is something you can play up if you feel like inner system characters are getting the shaft. An open source hammer is just that: a hammer. The hammer from the inner system is made from a fancy new meta-material that transfers less force from the blow back into your hand, making it more comfortable to use.

Will both get the job done? Absolutely. Will characters from different parts of the system argue for hours about which item is superior? Absolutely.

templariomaster templariomaster's picture
DrewDavis wrote:Quality wise

DrewDavis wrote:
Quality wise the equipment is a good (maybe. Metals are still a hard thing to find in the outer system), but open source equipment tends to be utilitarian in nature. This is something you can play up if you feel like inner system characters are getting the shaft. An open source hammer is just that: a hammer. The hammer from the inner system is made from a fancy new meta-material that transfers less force from the blow back into your hand, making it more comfortable to use.

Will both get the job done? Absolutely. Will characters from different parts of the system argue for hours about which item is superior? Absolutely.

I thought about that, offering two distinct versions of the same thing.

But that is a bit problematic, because a character would use a hammer, a gun, an armor, a gnat, explosives, bandages... and I have to write different statistics for 5 options; PC, extropian, anarchists, ultimates and Jovian, and writing in a way that makes sense and keeps the game balanced.

Its a bit insane

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
They don't need different

They don't need different stats. It would mostly just be for RP purposes whether they have a shitty hammer or a nice one. It's like the difference between the character dressing in rags or in a finely tailored suit. Same stats (no armor), but wildly different RP-wise.

However, as I said, you have to consider times where you may not wish to use a CM to make things. If time is of the essence, or you need something for which a blueprint does not exist. Another thing to consider is feedstock: Most of the cost of an item comes from the materials, so at best you get a small savings by fabricating it. If you can even get all the required materials in the first place. Equivalent exchange and all that, can't throw in crops and get handguns.

DrewDavis DrewDavis's picture
Not really. Remember the

Not really. Remember the corporate stuff just has niceties. Those niceties probably don't affect the stats of the device, they just provide flavor, which is what you're really after. A pistol is a pistol is a pistol no matter where you get it as far as the game aspect is concerned. The Role-Playing aspect is where you create the difference between an open source pistol created by Monopoly Violence for use in the outer system and the standard sidearm of New Shanghai's equivalent of Section 9.

Creating fluff around the different equipment offered by the various hypercorps, extropian collectives, syndicalist, sounds like a great project for this forum though.

templariomaster templariomaster's picture
DrewDavis wrote:Not really.

DrewDavis wrote:
Not really. Remember the corporate stuff just has niceties. Those niceties probably don't affect the stats of the device, they just provide flavor, which is what you're really after. A pistol is a pistol is a pistol no matter where you get it as far as the game aspect is concerned. The Role-Playing aspect is where you create the difference between an open source pistol created by Monopoly Violence for use in the outer system and the standard sidearm of New Shanghai's equivalent of Section 9.

Creating fluff around the different equipment offered by the various hypercorps, extropian collectives, syndicalist, sounds like a great project for this forum though.

So If you want basic stuff, go to Locus.

If you have money go to extropia and get advanced stuff.

If you demonstrate to the ultimates that you're worth it, then you can go for their special designs at leve 5 of U-rep.

If you advance in the military rankings of the jovian republic then you can access to their secret designs, as it would happen in the planetary consortium.

In fact, this is kind of a constant for all factions.

If the faction is collectivist: All free but basic stuff.
If the faction is capitalist: You can have advanced things if you pay for them.
If the faction is elitist: You can have special designs depending on your reputation level.
If the faction is authoritarian: Your level in the hierarchy opens you the doors to secret designs.

Then, exhumans and nanoecologists would be elitists, but argonauts collectivists.

Chernoborg Chernoborg's picture
Urthdigger wrote:As for the

Urthdigger wrote:
As for the hardware skill, you may as well ask what use the medicine skill has when medichines are an option, or most of the knowledge skills.

Reading this and some previous posts got me thinking about equipment and skills. Suppose stuff like medichines ,fabbers, or repair spray have an inherent skill level to them and beyond that they need guidance from better skilled characters. For instance medichines can do basic first aid and stabilize but to fully recover from injuries you need a paramedic - setting bones,stapling lacerations,etc. things that can't be easily done by tiny robots. The same could apply to hardware skills as making the best choice for the situation. Let's go with the hammer example, you want the best hammer for the job...do you know which one that is? If you're skilled enough then yes , or fall back on the fabbers recommendation for a basic hammer. Yes, I have spent time staring at the wall o' hammers at the hardware store, why do you ask?

This isn't even without precedent either. Skillsofts can implant a skill up to 40 points onto a brain ,so that can be our baseline. Anything higher than that requires an ego.

Babies is a whole other kettle of fish ...which has been hotly debated in other threads. My take is that beyond a certain point augmentations don't carry over into offspring . Babies can be born effectively as splicers or rusters(mods necessary to live) but not as ghosts or furies.

Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!

DrewDavis DrewDavis's picture
templariomaster wrote:

templariomaster wrote:

So If you want basic stuff, go to Locus.

If you have money go to extropia and get advanced stuff.

If you demonstrate to the ultimates that you're worth it, then you can go for their special designs at leve 5 of U-rep.

If you advance in the military rankings of the jovian republic then you can access to their secret designs, as it would happen in the planetary consortium.

In fact, this is kind of a constant for all factions.

It's more:

If you want something that just works, go open source.

If you want something that works, has neat bells and whistles, and you can make people with less money then you feel inferior with, go proprietary.

Aldrich Aldrich's picture
If the main constraints you

If the main constraints you place on nano-fabrication are material availability and time, you also might consider how hard it is to find the correct blueprint among the multitude of freely available ones.

When dealing with open source blueprints, you could call for a research (or networking) test to find a very specific blueprint, or to pick a good blueprint from among the thousands of crappy ones.

Finding a specific blueprint just takes time, so don't make your players roll that unless limited time is an issue. But this makes sense for things like spaceship parts. You don't need a blueprint for a "fusion induction coil", you need a blueprint for a "type 37B, 11mm tungsten-iridium fusion coil that fits the reactors used in the third production run of the Z42 cargo rockets because, you know, those were all off by 13 um when they were built and don't match the standard blueprint that's in memory".

For more common items, when selecting a good blueprint among thousands of crappy ones, the measure of failure (or success) could result in the selection of a sub-par (or exceptional) blueprint. No need for a full set of stats, just give the resulting item -10 (or +10, or whatever) to the thing that it does.

And regarding hardware skills: don't forget that there's a programming test to set up the fabrication process. I would allow appropriate hardware skills to give a related skill boost to that test - and the probably the research tests I mentioned above: how would you know that your ship needed that "type 37B fusion coil" if you didn't have the Hardware: Spaceship Reactors (or whatever) skill?

Oh and someone had to design the blueprints in the first place - they needed the hardware and academic skills for that. I think Asimov had a short story about that, actually...

Capitalocracy Capitalocracy's picture
Restrictions

It's not just a matter of going to some open-source station and getting all the blueprints they need and heading off to the Jovian Republic to happily fab every piece of equipment they want. Restrictions will be placed on the available fabbers/cornucopia machines themselves in other areas. Clippy comes up and says, "It looks like you're trying to fab a plasma rifle! I've contacted the police! You're welcome!" Restrictions could be placed on what blueprints you bring in... you could be required to submit to a check on what kinds of files you're bringing in when you farcast. This could also keep you from bringing in hacks and viruses. And if you come in physically on a ship (a pretty big burden in its own right), it may be illegal to bring unrestricted fabbers with you and customs can do searches. So if your characters can get around all that, AND get the necessary materials, let them fab their plasma rifle. Don't get caught with it.

Undocking Undocking's picture
templariomaster wrote:

templariomaster wrote:

So If you want basic stuff, go to Locus.

If you have money go to extropia and get advanced stuff.

If you demonstrate to the ultimates that you're worth it, then you can go for their special designs at leve 5 of U-rep.

If you advance in the military rankings of the jovian republic then you can access to their secret designs, as it would happen in the planetary consortium.

In fact, this is kind of a constant for all factions.

So, an anarchist who designs a fantastic hammer with metamaterials wouldn't free source it? An Extropian wouldn't try to make a quick buck by selling basic material utilitarian hammers? Or undercutting a PC company by selling the same blueprint at a lower price? An open sourcer wouldn't crap all over the dichotomy by hacking into a Jovian fabber, jailbreaking their blueprints, and post them all on an anarchist Maker community?
I can totally see Jovians and Inner System types restricting blueprint quality using price, but Anarchsts, Makers and other free spirit materialists don't have those hang ups.

Alkahest Alkahest's picture
Linux.

Linux.

Windows.

That's all I have to say.

President of PETE: People for the Ethical Treatment of Exhumans.

templariomaster templariomaster's picture
Undocking wrote

Undocking wrote:
templariomaster wrote:

So If you want basic stuff, go to Locus.

If you have money go to extropia and get advanced stuff.

If you demonstrate to the ultimates that you're worth it, then you can go for their special designs at leve 5 of U-rep.

If you advance in the military rankings of the jovian republic then you can access to their secret designs, as it would happen in the planetary consortium.

In fact, this is kind of a constant for all factions.

So, an anarchist who designs a fantastic hammer with metamaterials wouldn't free source it? An Extropian wouldn't try to make a quick buck by selling basic material utilitarian hammers? Or undercutting a PC company by selling the same blueprint at a lower price? An open sourcer wouldn't crap all over the dichotomy by hacking into a Jovian fabber, jailbreaking their blueprints, and post them all on an anarchist Maker community?
I can totally see Jovians and Inner System types restricting blueprint quality using price, but Anarchsts, Makers and other free spirit materialists don't have those hang ups.

Nope, but a hammer that costs a shit load of time and can break with 2 hits because the design has flaws its something that can happen in an anarchist enviroment. But still, you can stick to the common and secure version.

And of course an extropian business can sell a cheap hammer design, I didnt said that you couldn't find it. I said that you can find a hammer-sword-dildo for only 25 credits more only in extropia.

Of course there would be hackers, but most of them would go for things that can be cracked easily, and others things, will require much more time and effort.

bibliophile20 bibliophile20's picture
Alkahest wrote:Linux.

Alkahest wrote:
Linux.

Windows.

That's all I have to say.

Yep. One is a closed-source, rent seeking, money-maker designed to lock you into a single upgrade path with crappy support, massive security holes, a one-size-fits-most mentality that doesn't care about those whose needs aren't met, and a monopolistic disregard for customer service, but has a schnazzy GUI that eats up processing power.

The other is a trusted, well known, well-designed OS with hundreds of customized and specialized iterations for every concieveable need that is considered secure enough and stable enough to be trusted by the people that know computers to be the option of choice for managing the backbones of the Internet, but isn't as pretty out of the box.

Yep. I have to say, Alkahest, you made a really good argument for Open Source there. :)

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin

Maskin Maskin's picture
Good example, and there are

Good example, and there are lots more software/hardware examples like that of various stripes, such as iPhone/iPad (closed, sleek, expensive, controlled) vs Android (open, functional, cheap(ish), variety, fast developing) + Windows Phone which is a bit like Lunar tech having fallen behind and now trying to catch up...

Another LibreOffice/OpenOffice (free, powerful, flexible, evolving) versus M$ Office (closed, expensive, new versions cost more $$$).

However, in the case of Windows VS Linux (ignoring Mac) it is not all wins for Linux. The Windows GUI is in my experience sleeker and with fewer quirks that require extra know-how and configuration (although Win8 is a good example of corporate agenda forcing an inferior design on its locked-in customers) and being able to use Linux effectively can be much more challening. A lot of configuration and app usage on Linux requires a good deal of tech savvy and understanding (or willingness to spend time searching for answers), while although perhaps more limited, Windows (and Mac) is a lot easier to grok for those who think of the computer as a tool. Bringing this back to EP, I would think that a lot of open-source, anarchist and extropy designs would have more functionality - "hey, why not add a nail dispenser, laser measurer, wrench and mp3 player to this hammer design" - I also imagine it would often take more skill to use effectively and might not work out-of-the-box.

bibliophile20 wrote:
**slightly edited**Windows: Closed-source, rent seeking, money-maker designed to lock you into a single upgrade path with crappy support, massive security holes, a one-size-fits-most mentality that doesn't care about those whose needs aren't met, and a monopolistic disregard for customer service, but has a schnazzy GUI that eats up processing power.

Linux: Trusted, well known, well-designed OS with hundreds of customized and specialized iterations for every concieveable need that is considered secure enough and stable enough to be trusted by the people that know computers to be the option of choice for managing the backbones of the Internet, but isn't as pretty out of the box.

Yep. I have to say, Alkahest, you made a really good argument for Open Source there. :)

Transhuman Mind

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
One thing to remember is that

One thing to remember is that any nanofabrication design which comes out of the PC, LLA or Morningstar Alliance is going to have been cracked and released for free within a month, tops. And it will be clearly labeled "Skinthetic Chrome(tm) brand cybereyes model 2143 rev.1 January 10" or something to that effect.

That's not a Research test, that's a quick Google.

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uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
I thought the Research skill

I thought the Research skill *was* a [Space-]Google search, that's why Muses do it for you at 40.

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
uwtartarus wrote:I thought

uwtartarus wrote:
I thought the Research skill *was* a [Space-]Google search, that's why Muses do it for you at 40.

I think that's a symptom of RPGs wanting to make the players roll for everything, which is not, to my way of mind, nessessary.

You don't need to roll research to make a Space-Google. That's what computers are for. They either work or they don't, especially as search technology gets more and more advanced. How long has it been since you had to dig down to the second page of Google search results? The third? Fifth? Tenth?

I'm willing to bet it's been so long you only remember it as something you used to have to do a long time ago. EP will have another 130 years to perfect that, and that's not even counting on your Muse, with intimate personal knowledge of how you think, customizing your search parameters to account for your own foibles, quirks and desires, and then probably actively filtering the results to get the ones you need the most.

You know when you need to roll Research? When you're trying to find information that isn't readily available and clearly marked on the Mesh: Searching through a mountain of old hard data storage that was never uploaded, trying to find something which has been obfuscated, doing old-fashioned legwork by contacting people to get them to reveal to you the seeeecrets in their gray matter or cyberbrains which have not been put on the mesh. Collating data from several different resources to form a customized information pattern that suits exactly what you need to know, such as tracking someone's steps through the city of Elysium by their mesh pings from a week ago.

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Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
uwtartarus wrote:
I thought the Research skill *was* a [Space-]Google search, that's why Muses do it for you at 40.

I think that's a symptom of RPGs wanting to make the players roll for everything, which is not, to my way of mind, nessessary.

You don't need to roll research to make a Space-Google. That's what computers are for. They either work or they don't, especially as search technology gets more and more advanced. How long has it been since you had to dig down to the second page of Google search results? The third? Fifth? Tenth.

Given that I have friends and housemates who will ask me to google something for them, because their google-fu is so bad they couldn't find it. I suspect that there is a research skill, and that there will be people with poor scores in it.

Although I would make most stuff of trivial difficulty, so you only fail on a fumble.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:Given

Kremlin K.O.A. wrote:
Given that I have friends and housemates who will ask me to google something for them, because their google-fu is so bad they couldn't find it. I suspect that there is a research skill, and that there will be people with poor scores in it.

Although I would make most stuff of trivial difficulty, so you only fail on a fumble.

There is a research skill, you just don't need it to space-google something. If they can screw up a Google, what they have is not a poor research skill (they might be aces at research in a physical library,) but the Incompetent negative trait applied to Interfacing.

Fortunately, they (will, in EP,) have a muse who does not have Incompetent: Interfacing.

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Aldrich Aldrich's picture
Yup

I actually agree. With my first example I was shooting for a blueprint that was so obscure that it wasn't available on most of the mesh. I don't like extra rolls and was only putting it forward as an additional source of time control for a GM who's trying to control fabrication on a time-limited basis.

Thinking about my second proposal some more: if you're playing a game that focuses heavily on blueprints and DRM, it might make sense to call for research to select an above-average *propriety* blueprint, given the prevalence of false positive reviews, deceptive marketing, fanboi zeal, etc. that there is to sift through.

Not something I'd include in an average game though. And I'm probably biased right now, I've been working on systems for detecting opinion/review spam recently irl.

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Aldrich wrote:I actually

Aldrich wrote:
I actually agree. With my first example I was shooting for a blueprint that was so obscure that it wasn't available on most of the mesh. I don't like extra rolls and was only putting it forward as an additional source of time control for a GM who's trying to control fabrication on a time-limited basis.

Thinking about my second proposal some more: if you're playing a game that focuses heavily on blueprints and DRM, it might make sense to call for research to select an above-average *propriety* blueprint, given the prevalence of false positive reviews, deceptive marketing, fanboi zeal, etc. that there is to sift through.

Not something I'd include in an average game though. And I'm probably biased right now, I've been working on systems for detecting opinion/review spam recently irl.

I would point out that, with your suggestion of a production run which is specifically flawed, but so widely known to be specifically flawed and so specifically flawed as to conform to a specification (just not the right one,) that people have will likely have engineered a part on the off-spec to fit that specific part. Also, any mesh enquiries about parts for that engine will likely pop up, in

GIGANTIC RED LETTERS

that there are widely known problems with that particular part, and that anyone doing anything should verify exactly what they're dealing with manually.

That's not nearly as strange as you'd think. I have a friend who owns a VW Passat that was made at the very tail end of the model year production run, when they were gearing down so they could retool the planet to build the new model year. To get the last few hundred cars together, they didn't always have all of the exact parts they needed, so they bodged them together, upgrading on some bits if necessary, and using whatever came to hand otherwise. For instance, his door panel has the switch for heated mirrors... But he hasn't got heated mirrors. And any time he goes in to the dealership to get a part, it pops up on their screen in big red letters that everything about the vehicle is suspected to be off-spec, and to manually verify all part numbers.

Anyway, if you're looking for an above-average blueprint, or a proprietary blueprint whose hacked copies have yet to hit the mainstream in the system, a research roll is probably called for, because you can, as you suggested, expect chaff; you can probably also expect fake hacked blueprints distributed by the owners in question designed to frag your nanofabber (and probably infest your mesh inserts with propaganda and viruses,) or at least build a device which is designed to fail spectacularly.

If you're on Mars or Luna or a PC/LLA habitat and trying to acquire pretty much anything open-source, let alone hacked, then you also have to deal with the censorship firewalls. The way I handle that is to assume that unless you've done something in the past which has brought you to the notice of sapient entities, you can expect a dumb AI to roll an opposed Infosec on you. So if you just take the extra time to keep things on the down-low (IE, impose a -40 penalty on its roll,) you're fine.

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Aldrich Aldrich's picture
Good point!

That's a good point! I also tend to forget that most systems are supposed to be self documenting. That fusion engine certainly has a computer (if not an actual AI) that has a note about the off-spec manufacturing run and blueprints for all of its own spare parts, or at least directions on how to modify [proprietary blueprint no. X] to fit. Though I suppose its always possible that the documentation has been damaged or corrupted, if that suits the narrative.

thebluespectre thebluespectre's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

That's not nearly as strange as you'd think. I have a friend who owns a VW Passat that was made at the very tail end of the model year production run, when they were gearing down so they could retool the PLANET to build the new model year. To get the last few hundred cars together, they didn't always have all of the exact parts they needed, so they bodged them together, upgrading on some bits if necessary, and using whatever came to hand otherwise. For instance, his door panel has the switch for heated mirrors... But he hasn't got heated mirrors. And any time he goes in to the dealership to get a part, it pops up on their screen in big red letters that everything about the vehicle is suspected to be off-spec, and to manually verify all part numbers.

…I like what the typo implies, which is terrifying.

"Still and transfixed, the el/
ectric sheep are dreaming of your face..." -Talk Shows on Mute

Lorsa Lorsa's picture
Since the first replies I saw

Since the first replies I saw where answering your first and long question, I'll quickly answer the second one. Feel free to ignore if someone already did.

templariomaster wrote:
Note: Another question, is kids in EP have enhaced bodies wen they born in the exowombs? Or to preserve them from things like the futura their bodies are flats?

Yes they are born with enhanced bodies. Children are usually "constructed" from a pool of genes the parents are interested in. Not many parents are interested in children with birth defects so at the very least a Splicer is to be expected.

The futura project didn't go awry because of the enhanced bodies, it was for other reasons. For all intents and purposes, children in EP could be born into Exalts.

I imagine that you might want to avoid Basic Mesh Inserts into your kids though, they have enough input for the brain to make sense of as it is. A Cortical Stack is to be expected however, you wouldn't want you child to have to go through those tough first years more than once right? Accidents do happen...

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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Lorsa: I'd expect, in EP,

Lorsa: I'd expect, in EP, that the mesh inserts would be installed and grow with the child, but they wouldn't turn on all at once, and most mesh inserts would have a "growing system" in place to self-activate as the youngster grows.

After all, you probably want your kid to grow up used to the intangible stuff in his field of view, right?

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ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Google In Spaaaaace!

According to the RAW, space-google is exactly what research is. Sure, simple stuff probably won't need a roll; the skill comes into play when you have to actively extrapolate from the data provided, or include data from darknets, or using acronyms and slang to conceal illicit information, or filter out disinformation and so on.
When's the last time I had to go to page 2? 10 days ago, when I last used google scholar to search academic papers.

In any case, I'd like to +1 the importance of Hardware and Knowledge skills when it comes to blueprints. It's all very well using your +100 to research to get a blueprint for an assault rifle, print one off, and take it into battle... only to find it sticks out a small flag with "Bang!" on it when you pull the trigger, or dynamically alters the ammunition so you're hosing your enemies down with "Hither" splash-rounds.
Or just plain explodes, for that matter.

In a campaign where the players make large use of researched blueprints, I'd be tempted use something like this:

"When a player uses research to find a blueprint for a ranged weapon, roll once on each of the following tables. If the blueprint is pirated, roll twice on each table and use the higher values. If the blueprint is open source, add 2 to your rolls.
For each 10 MoS the player achieves on his roll, add 1 to the first roll or subtract 1 from the second roll.
A successful Hardware: Armourer check will allow them to discover the alterations to the blueprint.

--Weapon Blueprint Table
This gun is so sweet...
1, 2, 3: Standard Model
4, 5: Increase all ranges by 10%
6, 7: +2 DV
8, 9 -2 AP
10, 11: Either -2 AP, +2 DV or 10% increase to all ranges, which can be swapped with a complex action
12: -2 AP, +2 DV and 10% increase to all ranges

… or it would be, if it wasn't for...
1, 2, 3: Standard Model
4, 5: Decrease all ranges by 10%
6, 7: -2 DV
8, 9 +2 AP
10, 11: -2 AP, +2 DV and 10% increase to all ranges
12: Boobytraped: Upon firing the weapon automatically backfires, performing an attack with skill 60 against the wielder and destroying itself in the process."

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
ThatWhichNeverWas wrote

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
According to the RAW, space-google is exactly what research is. Sure, simple stuff probably won't need a roll; the skill comes into play when you have to actively extrapolate from the data provided, or include data from darknets, or using acronyms and slang to conceal illicit information, or filter out disinformation and so on.

That is pretty much what I just said, isn't it?

Quote:
When's the last time I had to go to page 2? 10 days ago, when I last used google scholar to search academic papers.

Oooooh. You were looking for very obscure information using a specialized tool and you had to go as far as page two?!You must have been searching for secrets buried as deep as Jimmy Hoffa.[/sarcasm]

You sort of made my own case here. Page 2 to get what you need is not an awful lot of difficulty. I'm willing to bet your muse would have been able to trim down the entries to the point where the ones you finally needed were the very first ones on the top.

Quote:
In any case, I'd like to +1 the importance of Hardware and Knowledge skills when it comes to blueprints. It's all very well using your +100 to research to get a blueprint for an assault rifle, print one off, and take it into battle... only to find it sticks out a small flag with "Bang!" on it when you pull the trigger, or dynamically alters the ammunition so you're hosing your enemies down with "Hither" splash-rounds.
Or just plain explodes, for that matter.

There's a very easy way to handle that. You don't need any Hardware skill at all. Tell your muse to filter out any entries which were posted by anyone with an @-Rep or r-Rep of less than 40. Tell it to filter out any entries which were posted by anyone whose verifiable history doesn't date back at least eight years and doesn't carry rep scores on at least three listings. Tell it to filter out any entries from people whose rep took a dive shortly after its posting, tell it to filter out any entries with large numbers of negative reviews, and tell it to filter out anyone whose c-Rep is above 20, and, above all, tell it to filter out any entries from anyone who has complaints against them for releasing sabotaged/junk blueprints.

There you go. You can now be pretty damn sure your rifle is going to shoot bullets the way you meant it to.

In a campaign where the players make large use of researched blueprints, I'd be tempted use something like this:

"When a player uses research to find a blueprint for a ranged weapon, roll once on each of the following tables. If the blueprint is pirated, roll twice on each table and use the higher values. If the blueprint is open source, add 2 to your rolls.
For each 10 MoS the player achieves on his roll, add 1 to the first roll or subtract 1 from the second roll.
A successful Hardware: Armourer check will allow them to discover the alterations to the blueprint.

Quote:
--Weapon Blueprint Table
This gun is so sweet...
1, 2, 3: Standard Model
4, 5: Increase all ranges by 10%
6, 7: +2 DV
8, 9 -2 AP
10, 11: Either -2 AP, +2 DV or 10% increase to all ranges, which can be swapped with a complex action
12: -2 AP, +2 DV and 10% increase to all ranges

… or it would be, if it wasn't for...
1, 2, 3: Standard Model
4, 5: Decrease all ranges by 10%
6, 7: -2 DV
8, 9 +2 AP
10, 11: -2 AP, +2 DV and 10% increase to all ranges
12: Boobytraped: Upon firing the weapon automatically backfires, performing an attack with skill 60 against the wielder and destroying itself in the process."

That's nice, except the models which were 12s on the "sweet" table and 1-3 on the "if not for" table would all quickly shoot to the top by virtue of being bumped for being fucking awesome, whilst those which had anything above a 3 on the "not for" table would be panned, especially anything above a 5. 12s would have toxic rep and ego hunters out looking for the corporate jackass responsible for putting a trapped weapon on the mesh so as to melt his stack.

And your muse will be able to filter for that shit, perfectly. So you can basically count on everybody and their mum having a gun with -2 AP, +2 DV, and 10% longer range than usual.

(Also, I think you meant +2 AP, -2 DV, and 10% decrease for 10 and 11 on the "if not for" table, because as-written, that's another bonus equal to 12 on the "sweet" table. So a weapon which was 12-sweet and 10-11-not-for table would be -4 AP, +4 DV and 20% range.)

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ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:That

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
That is pretty much what I just said, isn't it?

Sort of! I was disagreeing with:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
If they can screw up a Google, what they have is not a poor research skill (they might be aces at research in a physical library,) but the Incompetent negative trait applied to Interfacing.
Imo, Incompetent: Interfacing wouldn't be I'm bad at Google”, but rather “Where's the 'Any' key?”.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
There's a very easy way to handle that. You don't need any Hardware skill at all. Tell your muse to filter out any entries which were posted by anyone with an @-Rep or r-Rep of less than 40. Tell it to filter out any entries which were posted by anyone whose verifiable history doesn't date back at least eight years and doesn't carry rep scores on at least three listings. Tell it to filter out any entries from people whose rep took a dive shortly after its posting, tell it to filter out any entries with large numbers of negative reviews, and tell it to filter out anyone whose c-Rep is above 20, and, above all, tell it to filter out any entries from anyone who has complaints against them for releasing sabotaged/junk blueprints.

“Your search did not match any documents.”

Really, this is why I added the Research MoS bit to the houserule I suggested, but even then you're not guaranteed to succeed.
You may find something absolutely fantastic without realising that it's a non-functional replica (“How could you not know? What did you think the //a^3:--://spR##Ä[]// tag meant? It's blatantly obvious!”), or a broken download link, or “This Blueprint has been removed due to Copyright Infringement”, or maybe the blueprint has been hacked since the last comment, or the entire thing including comments is a rep-con or maybe the blueprint doesn't work properly on your fabber because it's running a different OS and the .dll files are different or or or...

Just because it's the future doesn't mean Sods Law has gone away.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
That's nice, except the models which were 12s on the "sweet" table and 1-3 on the "if not for" table would all quickly shoot to the top by virtue of being bumped for being fucking awesome

Yes, the experimental anti-exsurgent rifle designed by the Ultimates for which the server-locked blueprint is only available for 1 day out of the martian year when the creator's hab is within mesh range of Uranus IS very sweet. Pity about the enriched uranium you need to actually print the thing off, and the way the ultimates keep removing the spines of non-members they see wielding it.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
...whilst those which had anything above a 3 on the "not for" table would be panned, especially anything above a 5. 12s would have toxic rep and ego hunters out looking for the corporate jackass responsible for putting a trapped weapon on the mesh so as to melt his stack.

“No no! It's really a feature! It doesn't need any metal! The whole thing is made of carbon! Sure, it may catch fire, but it's really easy to fab! And the reduced muzzle velocity means you won't penetrate the hull! Come onnnnn, it's my first design.”

...
or possibly...

“How dare you flame my perfect, molecular level reconstruction of a Colt Paterson! Have you any idea how hard I worked to get the perfect level of inaccuracy? I suppose you just want to put holes on people any old way, you utter philistine!

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
(Also, I think you meant +2 AP, -2 DV, and 10% decrease for 10 and 11 on the "if not for" table,
Yeah, that was a typo.

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
First:

First:
What stops a player with a ship, storage, and regular access to raw materials to assemble anything he wants? Nothing. Time and money will be the only constraint, making Logistics very simple... but not less important. To avoid the minutiae of needing a database with how many atoms of each chemical you have in stock, having access to the blueprint and the machine has a cost one step lower than buying the item you wanna make. In essence, you exchange that for time and the user's fee.
Another very important concern is, simply, that it's easier to procure yourself a weapon once you are past the perimeter than smuggle it yourself, unless you are conducting an assault, a situation in which you already have the weapons one way or another.

Second:
Open Source Vs Propietary: please do consider the main reason for Firewall teams to have (and hide) blueprints is access. Essentially, the problem is not money but being able to produce a weapon in any situation, and that means you won't have the propietary versions of all blueprints in every situation, if only beacuse it could be traced to you. In this regard, Open Source == hacked, cracked or freely developed and released.

Third: currency.
Propietary blueprints cost money, Open Source more often than not will require favours. See which one are you less inclined to use, and that will be one of the main deciding factors.

Fourth: Why should you have knowledges like Armory and the like, instead of just nanofabbing, or buy the blueprints?
Sometimes you won't be able to carry the blueprints, and to be able to program them from scratch can be a boon (x60 VRs are just the thing for those situations). You could say that you have the blueprint memorized... but that is part of the things Knowledge: Armory covers. It's also difficult to design a gun, or modifications to it (so it can operate in other worlds, for example) if your knowledge about the subject is limited to "point and press the button".

So, is it practical? It's like physics, chemistry, and engineering (as a way to unite everything else into something usable). A regular soldier can do his job without them, but McGyver was able to do incredible stuff with them.