EP2 - Quick-Start Rules

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AdamJury AdamJury's picture
EP2 - Quick-Start Rules

All,

The PDF of the Quick-Start Rules has gone up as part of the Playtest Package on DriveThruRPG: http://bit.ly/ep2playtest

It will also be added to the regular Quick-Start Rules download on DriveThruRPG later today, for those who want to learn about EP2 but don't care about the playtest aspects.

Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
Woo! Digging the new layout

Woo! Digging the new layout work you did on this one, Adam.

The adventure is great, and I really appreciate how approachable it feels.

Love the icons for the different pools.

Threat Pools are a good way to keep it simple for npcs. Would you sum up their threat pool by the amount of pools they'd get from their mods/morphs?

I'm sure we'll get the detailed version of the mesh rules eventually, but I just wanna say this little preview of how Hacking works now is a great way to cut the gordian knot on that. Awesome work!

GRAAK GRAAK's picture
Aiming & others

Aiming is described under Complex actions at pag. 5,while it's a quick OR complex actions (page. 9,table)... Exactly as for 1st edition...

Just reading through it...

Pools icons are nice but... they have no sense, probably I would have preferred a clear reference: brain, biceps and whatever...

Brute Force hacking is -30? Wasn't it +30 back in the 1st ed days?
BTW, is hacking that simplified compared to 1st edition? Or are those condensed rules made for the Quickstart?

Regarding Muses: "They can also watch over your own personal areA network". The capital A is missing.

Stopped at the beginning of the adventure, I'll finish reading tomorrow.
The transition between rules and the adventure is not bruntly enough imo. I would expect a big title "ACRIMONY" to announce it and stop players reading...

Concerning rules. I'm still worried about the metacurrency and meta-game effect brought by the pools but I have to try it in effective play.
Next: All those subrules regarding superior success and critical success should be trimmed down and optimized imo. I come from 1st edition but felt overwhelmed nonetheless :-/ are those subrules necessary?

RedDirt RedDirt's picture
As a new player...

There is a lot missing to help a new player/GM. There is equipment listed on the character sheets but no information about what they do except for a handful that automatically integrated into their stats. Things that don't directly apply to the adventure, but players would probably ask about and if they can use it. For example many NPC's and Characters have the Mnemonics ware. I have no idea what that does and it's never explained. Many items of equipment/ware are like that with no description.

A bigger problem are the morphs a lot of the NPC's are in. What is a "Security Pod" morph and what does it look like, same for a "Dragonfly"...etc, etc. There should probably be an extra page or two of very brief equipment/morph introduction to give some footing on exactly what these things are and what they do. Especially if this QS is handed out by itself without the rest of the books. To run this thing I'd need to core rule book for sure as somebody just getting into EP!

EDIT: After reading, that sounded a bit too harsh. Overall I think it's a solid QuickStart and I do wanna see how my players handle it when I run it for them.

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
We have super-tight space

We have super-tight space requirements for the printed version of the QSR, but I'll make some notes to see if very brief descriptions of some gear and morphs can be added in before the next printing.

Voormas Voormas's picture
GRAAK wrote:All those

GRAAK wrote:
All those subrules regarding superior success and critical success should be trimmed down and optimized imo. I come from 1st edition but felt overwhelmed nonetheless :-/ are those subrules necessary?
I think it's a pretty neat way to replace Measure of Success / Measure of Failure, but I mean it will take a little getting used to (I will need to keep a little chart handy for players - maybe some space on their character sheet / a good opportunity for more of the "playing card" style supplements / etc)

I really liked the "What is Eclipse Phase" intro - I hope that is word-for-word something which will be in the core book for 2E

I'm definitely going to have to chime in again later after running the adventure :)

sysop sysop's picture
Writing it down definitely

Writing it down definitely seems complicated but from running it at the table it felt really smooth. 33 and 66 were easy to remember as thirds. So clarifying how it's described yeah, but the rule itself felt solid.

Once players got it I saw a few of them using their Moxie to swap numbers or assisting each other so they could get a base success the over 33 limit to get the extra success when they'd already succeeded on the base roll - so it seemed to give players a little more control over creating stronger wins instead of only really worrying about a binary over/under result or mitigating critical failures.

I fix broken things. If you need something fixed, mention it on the suggestions board.
I also sometimes speak as website administrator and/ moderator.

GRAAK GRAAK's picture
I'm OK with getting a less

I'm OK with getting a less binary result, but so far I've always managed this matter from a narrative perspective, without mechanical effects or rare mechanical effects decided with common sense.

It seems to me that all those options are another addition to a system that already has MANY sub-rules and options.

2nd edition definitely gets rid of some crunchiness (resleeving, hacking, wounds side-effects) but substitute those limited (in gameplay) cruchy bits with new ubiquitous crunchiness (the new sub-rules potentially affect every roll during gameplay!).

Concerning hacking: some of the homemade player aids regarding hacking (I recall a flowchart) were really useful to clarify how hacking worked in 1st edition. I prefer that kind of sub-rules I have to remember once during a gaming session than a sub-rule I have to remember every roll, and that potentially could affect meta-game...

In the end I think I'll play a mix of the 2 editions...

I'm reading the adventure atm. So far: great premise! I really hope to read more adventures for 2nd edition! EP is not an easy setting to grasp, pre-made scenarios are a boon to help GMs and players to get into the setting.

Acatalepsy Acatalepsy's picture
I like this mission, but am

I like this mission, but am concerned it's more suitable for veteran sentinels than relative newcomers.

I'm especially concerned with...

Spoiler: Highlight to view
The ambush in the tunnels, pitting the four potentially under-armed characters (with three bodies among them) against ten relatively well-trained soldiers with assault rifles and grenades, opening with an IED ambush.

That seems like it could end the game on a bit of a downer for unprepared newcomers, you know?

I'd be interested in hearing some of outcomes you saw at GenCon.

This isn't a war ordinary humans can win. This is the future. Death's an inconvenience, now. Nothing more.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
What if they need to resleeve mid mission?

Regarding sudden-death syndromes in various EP adventures, should the Quickstart Rules talk about what it takes to get a resleeve (possibly from backup) ? A simple "It counts as your Major Favor" should be sufficient, as long as it's in a place where players will be able to see it.

I guess the sample characters are just assumed they'll resleeve into the *same* morph, or at least one known to their party.

A slight smell of ions....

Grim G Grim G's picture
So, one thing I noticed is

So, one thing I noticed is that the Rail Rifle doesn't say anything about armor penetration. Are they not counted like that any more?

Grim G Grim G's picture
Another thing I noticed,

Another thing I noticed, there doesn't seem to be an indicated. There doesn't seem to be any indication of magazine capacity.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
It is mentioned for the two

It is mentioned for the two railgun pistols, but not the assault rifle. It may have been accidentally left out, since the notes field has the comment about it being 2 handed instead.

It's also showing 10 more damage than the June version, so perhaps they replaced armor piercing with the significant damage bump. I'm guessing this is an error, though.

I'm guessing ammo limits were left off, since they're not critical when running a one shot.

Grim G Grim G's picture
ubik2 wrote:It is mentioned

ubik2 wrote:
It is mentioned for the two railgun pistols, but not the assault rifle. It may have been accidentally left out, since the notes field has the comment about it being 2 handed instead.

It's also showing 10 more damage than the June version, so perhaps they replaced armor piercing with the significant damage bump. I'm guessing this is an error, though.

I'm guessing ammo limits were left off, since they're not critical when running a one shot.


Too bad, I was hoping to see if they were going to stick with the old ammo system or not.
nerol-1 nerol-1's picture
Great product, as usual :-)

All the images are amazing.
"What is Eclipse Phase" is well written. It's a pity my players are veterans and I cannot use that as an introduction :-)
The pools icon are cool and they are well visible in the character sheet.
I have not read all Acrimony yet. At the moment, I like it.

I can't wait for the final rule book.

il NeRo
www.sentinellefirewall.blogspot.it
The blog about the adventures of 4 Italian Sentinels

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Of all the potential issues to have...

How on earth am I supposed to pronounce "Bves"???

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
PCs

PCs
Ajaya - Ah-JAI-yuh
Amal - Ah-MAHL
Chi - Kai (like the Greek letter)
Elis - Ey-LEES
Njal - Nyahl
Qi - Chee
Sváfa - SVA-fah or SVOW-fah

NPCs
Vidya - VID-yuh
Janu Vaidyar - JAH-nui VIDE-yahr
Ravana - Rah-VAH-nuh
Chang’e Jade - CHAHNG-ey Jade
Bves - BEE-ves
Darvish Nahum - Dar-VEESH NA-hoom

TheGrue TheGrue's picture
Are we ever going to get

Are we ever going to get clarification about how burst weapons ie seekers interact with the fray/defense rules?

Thermonuclear Banana Split - A not-really-weekly Eclipse Phase campaign journal.

Grim G Grim G's picture
AdamJury wrote:PCs

AdamJury wrote:
PCs
Ajaya - Ah-JAI-yuh
Amal - Ah-MAHL
Chi - Kai (like the Greek letter)
Elis - Ey-LEES
Njal - Nyahl
Qi - Chee
Sváfa - SVA-fah or SVOW-fah

NPCs
Vidya - VID-yuh
Janu Vaidyar - JAH-nui VIDE-yahr
Ravana - Rah-VAH-nuh
Chang’e Jade - CHAHNG-ey Jade
Bves - BEE-ves
Darvish Nahum - Dar-VEESH NA-hoom


See, this is why we need a single universal language that actually makes sense. HOW THE FUCK DOES A Q MAKE A CH SOUND?!
clubspecialbee clubspecialbee's picture
Grim G wrote:HOW THE FUCK

Grim G wrote:
HOW THE FUCK DOES A Q MAKE A CH SOUND?!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin see section: "Rules given in terms of English pronunciation"

so history, romanization, linguistics?

Grim G Grim G's picture
clubspecialbee wrote:Grim G

clubspecialbee wrote:
Grim G wrote:
HOW THE FUCK DOES A Q MAKE A CH SOUND?!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin see section: "Rules given in terms of English pronunciation"

so history, romanization, linguistics?


Again, how? Who thought of this and how did they get it so wrong?
Shambleau Shambleau's picture
There is a lot of consonant

There is a lot of consonant sounds in Mandarin, so choices were made. Also, "Q" has been used for veeeery different sounds across the ages in different languages.

clubspecialbee clubspecialbee's picture
as far as i can gather, the

as far as i can gather, the chinese government requested a romanization of its languages in the 1950s, ostensibly to make communication with the english-speaking world easier. The only name I can find is Zhou Youguang, though he claimed to be the "son" of Pinyin, not the "father".

In practical terms, apparently there are two very similar sounds in Cantonese/Mandarin/etc that sound nearly identical to non-native speakers but with a subtle difference in tongue placement during pronunciation. [ch] represents one and [q] the other.

Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
This seems like a huge

This seems like a huge tangent to me.

Voormas Voormas's picture
AdamJury wrote:PCs

AdamJury wrote:
PCs
Ajaya - Ah-JAI-yuh
Elis - Ey-LEES
Qi - Chee

I might be a little dumb, but I don't see these player characters in the playtest material anywhere? I'm running a session today so hopefully the results aren't marred by me having just totally blanked on stuff

Grim G Grim G's picture
Shambleau wrote:There is a

Shambleau wrote:
There is a lot of consonant sounds in Mandarin, so choices were made. Also, "Q" has been used for veeeery different sounds across the ages in different languages.

clubspecialbee wrote:
as far as i can gather, the chinese government requested a romanization of its languages in the 1950s, ostensibly to make communication with the english-speaking world easier. The only name I can find is Zhou Youguang, though he claimed to be the "son" of Pinyin, not the "father".

In practical terms, apparently there are two very similar sounds in Cantonese/Mandarin/etc that sound nearly identical to non-native speakers but with a subtle difference in tongue placement during pronunciation. [ch] represents one and [q] the other.


I envy the factors. They don't have to worry about pronouncing something wrong. How the chinese do it is a mystery that will haunt me for the rest of my life.
clubspecialbee clubspecialbee's picture
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:This

Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
This seems like a huge tangent to me.

it is. apologies! by your name, i bet you've been down your own fair share of wiki-rabbit holes though :)

AdamJury AdamJury's picture
Voormas wrote:AdamJury wrote

Voormas wrote:
AdamJury wrote:
PCs
Ajaya - Ah-JAI-yuh
Elis - Ey-LEES
Qi - Chee

I might be a little dumb, but I don't see these player characters in the playtest material anywhere? I'm running a session today so hopefully the results aren't marred by me having just totally blanked on stuff


They're three of the other sample characters that will be in Eclipse Phase Second Edition, and at least a couple of them will be added to the Quick-Start packet down the road so it can support six players.
Voormas Voormas's picture
Right, cool :)

Right, cool :)

Trip report: 3 brand new players and 1 who had played a little 1E; spent about ~40 minutes going over the character sheets and what various items / ware did (taking a stab at things I didn't remember off the top of my head like the different kinds of bots), got through the briefing and used some Flex to introduce NPCs before recharging on the ship to the asteroid, did some hacking of the spaceport which seemed like without the full rules was probably easier than it should be, spent a bit more Flex on NPCs when getting to New City and a lot of time Researching on the way to the BestRest hostel / splitting up to visit the scratch space / hacking sensor feeds, ended due to time just as they realized Best was trying to probe them / Chi was organizing to meet Jade.

Overall I would say the rules were pretty smooth, for a bunch of novices they had little trouble getting the hang of how to use pools - didn't really do anything with rep though which was a shame.

One player commented that succeeding seemed pretty easy, I agreed generally (it's easy to find bonus' + Eclipse Phase characters are pretty front-loaded expertise wise) - everyone though had a good time and swiftly got into the spirit of extra-governmental conspiracy spies / investigators

We played with just a single copy of the How to Play section so I will need to print more of those for next time, also one guy did ask half way through "wait, what's Firewall again?", other than that went well and no real complaints rules-wise

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Spoilers :)

Spoilers :)

Spoiler: Highlight to view

From GenCon, the most fatality reports I'd gotten were from people staring directly at the artifact. My favorite is the poor infomorph hacker riding in the character's ghostrider module saying "hey, you really shouldn't have kicked off that wall. What's that? Don't look at that! Stop looking at it!! Aaaaiiiieeeee!!"

The other thing that tied up groups was when unarmed people scolded them and told them to go away. An unarmed miner in an empty tunnel waylaid a group for half an hour, as they were afraid of getting told off.

IEDs weren't a major issue, between characters having high skills and players being used to enough dungeon crawls to have a 'search for traps' mindset. Among non-RPG players, it would probably be a bigger issue.

RobBoyle RobBoyle's picture
Leetsepeak wrote:

Leetsepeak wrote:

Threat Pools are a good way to keep it simple for npcs. Would you sum up their threat pool by the amount of pools they'd get from their mods/morphs?

Roughly, maybe less, maybe more. PCs encounter mooks for only brief periods, so it's a bit unfair to have a mook blow all their pool points in a single encounter where PCs have to string their pools out between multiple encounters.

In EP2, Threat Pool will likely be a pool for an entire group of non-important NPCs, so the amount of mooks may also matter.

Rob Boyle :: Posthuman Studios

RobBoyle RobBoyle's picture
GRAAK wrote:

GRAAK wrote:

Brute Force hacking is -30? Wasn't it +30 back in the 1st ed days?

The intent is to make brute-force hacking applicable within combat. It can be done immediately, by throwing a kitchen sink full of common exploits at the target, but we're running with the idea that it is less effective and noisier. Probing takes longer, outside of combat, but doesn't have the negative mod.

GRAAK wrote:

BTW, is hacking that simplified compared to 1st edition? Or are those condensed rules made for the Quickstart?

Those are condensed rules for the QSR.

Rob Boyle :: Posthuman Studios

Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
RobBoyle wrote:Leetsepeak

RobBoyle wrote:
Leetsepeak wrote:

Threat Pools are a good way to keep it simple for npcs. Would you sum up their threat pool by the amount of pools they'd get from their mods/morphs?

Sounds sensible to me. Do you guys have a in-system term for these kinds of thugs/goons/mooks versus significant charactes like Luke Best or Bves from the Quickstart?

Roughly, maybe less, maybe more. PCs encounter mooks for only brief periods, so it's a bit unfair to have a mook blow all their pool points in a single encounter where PCs have to string their pools out between multiple encounters.

In EP2, Threat Pool will likely be a pool for an entire group of non-important NPCs, so the amount of mooks may also matter.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
Did you intend to ask a

Did you intend to ask a question there, Leetsepeak ?

A slight smell of ions....

Leetsepeak Leetsepeak's picture
WOOPS.

WOOPS.

I did at the time. No clue what it was now. Woop woop....

eaton eaton's picture
Quote:The intent is to make

Quote:
The intent is to make brute-force hacking applicable within combat. It can be done immediately, by throwing a kitchen sink full of common exploits at the target, but we're running with the idea that it is less effective and noisier. Probing takes longer, outside of combat, but doesn't have the negative mod.

I like this a lot. Turning it from "harder but faster" to "easier, faster, but wayyyyyy noisier" makes a lot of sense both thematically and from a real-world infosec perspective.

Reshy Reshy's picture
nezumi.hebereke wrote

nezumi.hebereke wrote:
Spoilers :)

Spoiler: Highlight to view

From GenCon, the most fatality reports I'd gotten were from people staring directly at the artifact. My favorite is the poor infomorph hacker riding in the character's ghostrider module saying "hey, you really shouldn't have kicked off that wall. What's that? Don't look at that! Stop looking at it!! Aaaaiiiieeeee!!"

Basilisk hacks are still stupid.