May 29 - Game Mechanics - Feedback Thread

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AdamJury AdamJury's picture
May 29 - Game Mechanics - Feedback Thread

This is the feedback thread for the Game Mechanics chapter, updated on May 29th.

It can be downloaded as part of the EP2 Open Playtest at: http://bit.ly/ep2playtest

We are getting down to the wire for this playtest. This is likely to be the final update to the Eclipse Phase Second Edition playtest. At this point, core mechanics and major features are locked down. Things to look for:

• Numbers and terms that are inconsistent or seem off-base with each other
(IE: a number/rule/term was updated in one chapter but not in another, or a number in text that contradicts a table).
• Unclear wording or explanations, typographical mistakes.
• Rules that are easily exploitable that lead to un-fun game situations, characters mechanically hogging the spotlight, etc.
• Places that should have cross-references (“p. XX” references) to other sections but do not OR vice-versa — places that seem to have excessive cross-refs.

Please exercise restraint in back-and-forth posting in this thread.

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Minor or major inconsistency

Minor or major inconsistency

In the section titled "Pools" it is mentioned that Flex can be used to affect dice rolls yet in its section its uses are only for narrative control.

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CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Ignore all modifiers option

Ignore all modifiers option for Pools also removes difficulty modifiers? Using this do you always use flat skill?
It seems to be very powerful option. Have to test to r determine impact.

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ubik2 ubik2's picture
CordialUltimate2 wrote:In the

CordialUltimate2 wrote:
In the section titled "Pools" it is mentioned that Flex can be used to affect dice rolls yet in its section its uses are only for narrative control.

None of the specific pool sections include the dice roll usage (since that's covered in the Using Pools section). The Flex text right above the Using Pools section mentions that it can be used to affect dice rolls for any tests. In the Using Pools section there's "Flex may be used on any test".

The first line in the Insight, Moxie, and Vigor sections does have the "...may also be used" text, which does make it more obvious that these are in addition to the uses in the Using Pools section. The Using Flex section lacks this "also" word, which would make it clearer.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Page 9 lists the different

Page 9 lists the different movement types a morph can have. I think its worth mentioning here that a synthmorph can pick a new mobility system for [Mod].

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
I think that superior

I think that superior successes and failures have been made out to be more important than what they actually are. The odds of getting one is 2%. Critical successes and failures have been mentioned to be more valuable. The odds of one happening is 8%.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
DivineWrath wrote:I think

DivineWrath wrote:
I think that superior successes and failures have been made out to be more important than what they actually are. The odds of getting one is 2%. Critical successes and failures have been mentioned to be more valuable. The odds of one happening is 8%.

Wait, how are you calculating 2% ?

The way I see it, say I have a skill of 50. For rolls above 50, i get a fail of some kind. For rolls from 1 to 32, I have a normal success (or a crit, for 11 and 22). Roughly 30% odds of plain success. Then for numbers from 34 to 50, I get a single Superior success. That's 15% right there once I extract the crit at 44.

Skill of 50:
4% crit success, 31% plain success, 15% Superior Success, 50% fail including crit fails.

A slight smell of ions....

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Huh? Isn't it only on rolls

Huh? Isn't it only on rolls of 33 and 66 that are superior success or failure?

*goes read the section again

o11o1 o11o1's picture
No, it's any roll *above* 33

No, it's any roll *above* 33 that still succeeds. And double if it's above *66* while still succeeding.

A slight smell of ions....

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
I think I see it now. This

I think I see it now. This really changes things (for me).

Can you get a critical and superior success at the same time?

I also looked into improving success types using pools. Its possible to upgrade a normal success to a superior success (or superior success to 2 superior success). So superior successes can happen much more often than I originally thought.

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
No, not really. Criticals are

No, not really. Criticals are sorta like... triple superior success, and override superior success rather than stacking.

By the way, one thing I love about the superior success system is it adds further benefit to raising skills. For instance, when you hit 33 in a skill (Effective, so including bonuses/penalties) not only do you unlock the possibility of a superior success, you've also made it impossible to get a double superior failure. Raise it to 66 and even a regular superior failure is impossible for you. While you may not ALWAYS do better than someone less trained due to luck, higher training still means you can reach higher heights than they can, and that when you screw up it's not quite as bad

Fearsomesole Fearsomesole's picture
Superior vs critical

Urthdigger wrote:
No, not really. Criticals are sorta like... triple superior success, and override superior success rather than stacking.

This is how I understood it as well, until I read hacking rules in the mesh doc. On page 20 for brute-force and subtle intrusion it states that superior success increases the privileges and critical success increases the covertness of hacking.

Does that mean that if a player gets critical success they also get the benefits of two superior successes, or they have to choose between increasing privileges or increasing covertness, or do they have to take the increase in covertness?

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
That is a very good point.

That is a very good point.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
Judging by previous readings

Judging by previous readings that "criticals override the Superior successes", said hacker who got an 11 would just get the covertness bonus.

A slight smell of ions....

Fearsomesole Fearsomesole's picture
o11o1 wrote:Judging by

o11o1 wrote:
Judging by previous readings that "criticals override the Superior successes", said hacker who got an 11 would just get the covertness bonus.

Right. What I assumed is that in hacking, as an exception, it is possible to get the benefits of both criticals and superiors by just rolling high enough. So rolling 11, like you said, would give just covertness bonus, while rolling 44 would increase covertness and privileges by one. It just feels odd that if a hacker with infosec 80, rolls 77 gets increase in only covertness, while rolling anything else above 66 would have yielded a much better result in form of admin priviliges.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
My personal take is that the

My personal take is that the passive alert (from a critical on brute-force attacks) is significantly better than admin privileges. You can quickly install a backdoor at -30 and come back with admin. While occasionally that extra action may be an issue, it's generally much more important to avoid the active alert.

RAW, you wouldn't get the superior effect. Page 3 of Game Mechanics has the following rule: "If a critical is also a superior result, only the critical applies."