The Mesh

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
AdamJury AdamJury's picture
The Mesh

The Mesh chapter is up in the playtest documents now: http://bit.ly/ep2playtest

Feedback on that chapter belongs in this thread. :)

kindalas kindalas's picture
Skimmed through it.

Skimmed through it.

I really liked this chapter.

Only thing that popped out is how do you do research if someone is actively obfuscating the truth.

Because fighting and making misinformation seems like a Firewall/Osma/Titanian Secret Death Squad task.

I am a Moderator of this Forum
My mod voice is red.

The Eclipse Phase Character sheet is downloadable here:
Get it here!

eaton eaton's picture
Still reading, but suuuuuuper

Still reading, but suuuuuuper thrilled that brute force and subtlety distinctions now make actual combat hacking a real option even without the crazy “four implants and two traits” tricks that were necessary to do anything within 2-3 action turns in 1ED. My infomorph player is super happy; it almost exactly matches what we’ve been using as a house rule.

APixelShort APixelShort's picture
Had a first browse, loving it!

I appreciate the line you've tried to walk between simpler rules and well-done crunch with the Mesh chapter, and from a first peruse I think you've done rather well!

Things my players and I are appreciating from a first impression:
- The explanations of things like intruder status, privileges, and how to get/change them seem clearer compared to EP1
- We're liking the look of Mesh combat (crashing programs/systems/infomorphs with Mesh attacks), especially those of us who played (and kind of enjoyed) the basics of Shadowrun's 5th ed Matrix rules
- As a GM, I appreciate the explanations of things like slaved devices & tiered systems. It being simpler compared to EP1 makes me feel more likely to go out of my way to design Mesh/network systems for my hackers to dig into, rather than wanting to abstract them away during gameplay
- The additional information on infomorphs and how they work has made my resident infolife ghost-riding cracker both very pleased, and vaguely concerned for what I'll throw at them
- From a first glance, glitches look to be an interesting addition (?), and seems to be a mechanic I didn't know I'd always wanted
- Consolidated hacking for the more inconsequential tasks I also quite like as a mechanic, helps get some of the legwork out of the way before a heist/infiltration/etc.

I don't think we've read deeply enough or for long enough to notice anything that we particularly dislike/disapprove of, but I'm sure our sessions this weekend will bring any of that to the fore.

Otherwise, beyond a few typos I'll flag when I get back home, things are looking fairly good!

APS Corp — Making Nonsense Since 2013

APixelShort APixelShort's picture
Cyberbrain Remote Mesh Attacks...

So, here's something my resident cracker pointed out to me.

Based on our understanding of the rules, rather than remote hacking a cyberbrain (get into the PAN, take a -30, etc), you can seem to just remote attack it with the new Mesh Combat rules, dealing 2d10 on successful attacks, +1d6 for each superior success, and without active shielding it's not even opposed.

Furthermore, given that a Cyberbrain seems to have a lower Mesh DUR (35) than a morph's mesh inserts (Host, 40), it seems like there's little combat/offensive reason to try hacking a cyberbrain and trapping the ego, rebooting/crashing the cyberbrain, or doing much else when you can just crash it remotely 2d10 at a time?

Hoping that we're just misreading/misunderstanding the situation, I'm honestly not sure if I'm reading this right, but my players say they are.

APS Corp — Making Nonsense Since 2013

Violet Dreamer Violet Dreamer's picture
APixelShort wrote:So, here's

APixelShort wrote:
So, here's something my resident cracker pointed out to me.

Based on our understanding of the rules, rather than remote hacking a cyberbrain (get into the PAN, take a -30, etc), you can seem to just remote attack it with the new Mesh Combat rules, dealing 2d10 on successful attacks, +1d6 for each superior success, and without active shielding it's not even opposed.

Furthermore, given that a Cyberbrain seems to have a lower Mesh DUR (35) than a morph's mesh inserts (Host, 40), it seems like there's little combat/offensive reason to try hacking a cyberbrain and trapping the ego, rebooting/crashing the cyberbrain, or doing much else when you can just crash it remotely 2d10 at a time?

Hoping that we're just misreading/misunderstanding the situation, I'm honestly not sure if I'm reading this right, but my players say they are.

I don't think they're right, I'm pretty sure the Mesh Inserts are the Host and that the cyberbrain is directly connected to it, so you'd have to make local attacks in order to interact with a cyberbrain.

APixelShort APixelShort's picture
Violet Dreamer wrote

Violet Dreamer wrote:
APixelShort wrote:
So, here's something my resident cracker pointed out to me.

Based on our understanding of the rules, rather than remote hacking a cyberbrain (get into the PAN, take a -30, etc), you can seem to just remote attack it with the new Mesh Combat rules, dealing 2d10 on successful attacks, +1d6 for each superior success, and without active shielding it's not even opposed.

Furthermore, given that a Cyberbrain seems to have a lower Mesh DUR (35) than a morph's mesh inserts (Host, 40), it seems like there's little combat/offensive reason to try hacking a cyberbrain and trapping the ego, rebooting/crashing the cyberbrain, or doing much else when you can just crash it remotely 2d10 at a time?

Hoping that we're just misreading/misunderstanding the situation, I'm honestly not sure if I'm reading this right, but my players say they are.

I don't think they're right, I'm pretty sure the Mesh Inserts are the Host and that the cyberbrain is directly connected to it, so you'd have to make local attacks in order to interact with a cyberbrain.


Upon further reflection and reading I think you're absolutely right, cyberbrains are not wirelessly accessible so you'd have to be making attacks via access jacks or by subverting the mesh inserts inserts first.

Thanks!

APS Corp — Making Nonsense Since 2013

Violet Dreamer Violet Dreamer's picture
No problem! ^_^

No problem! ^_^

I like these rules a lot, and think they're an amazing improvement! Mesh combat is a good way to directly interact that I didn't think I wanted, but is very useful!

You guys did a great job of cleaning up the systemic part of the Mesh's presentation and augmented its concept elements with usable elements, I think this is some of my favorite material you've shared with us so far!

And since its an integral part of the game, that is AWESOME.

One thing I was curious about, I don't recall the actual stats but will Muses also reflect the ALI rules presented here?

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Reading the document atm, but

Reading the document atm, but right now I must say I like it a lot, I always appreciate when the game reflects the reality, and those mentions to cryptocurrency and AR really touch there (doubling as an educative intro, aswell).

I am grateful for the focused, short explanations and definitions for certain systems, like how Psychosurgery is made on a Fork, with everything isolated and accessed only by Ego Bridge, but one has to wonder if that came after some PC or NPC ran away after a botched psy attempt XD

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Finally have a few minutes to post something :)

First impressions are very positive. Clear, lots of useful details... just enjoyable to read :)

Unfortunately I likely won't have time to actually playtest anything for quite a while, but I still have some thoughts:

--- More Important Stuff. ---

- Can we move the "AIs & Muses" and "Infomorphs" sections to before either (a) "Mesh Actions" or (b) "Virtual Reality"?
The section before and those after all concern actions within the mesh, and having the details abount mesh-entities where they are breaks the flow a bit.

- In the "Aptitides, Skills, and Pools" part of "AIs and Muses", it'd be nice if the 'ALIs can't default' line was expanded and/or given more emphasis.
It's almost a throwaway line, but in practice I find this is one of the most visibly defining aspects of ALIs because it creates a strict boundry as to what they can and cannot do.

Depending on how psychosurgery and skillware is going to work, I'd also make the limit to 10 active and know skills a hard cap which can't be bypassed (except maybe bybecoming an AGI), but that depends on rules you haven't published yet.

- The ALI Lucidity and Trauma paragraph could use detail regarding the circumstances when and where this comes into play: A security- or vehicle- ALI shouldn't be subject to willpower tests for seeing someone get shot for example, unless it's also supposed to represent the ALI's attempts to process information outside it's wheelhouse.

- Regarding 'Zeroing In', I suggest that you move one level if the Defender wins but the Attacker still succeeds, and move to Spotted and Active Alert if the Defender succeeds and the Attacker fails.

--- Less Important Stuff. ---

- There are pieces of software-gear spread throughout the document, such as Meshware and Scorchers. Is this just part of the playtest document?
If not, then I'd move it to the gear section.
Unless gear is supposed to be spread throughout the book in the rlevant chapters, but even then I'd consolidate it within the chapter.

- Would it be possible to add a couple of words to the section in Infomorphs on moving devices, specifically that you copy to the new device, activate your mind state, link it to your active processes, and erase yourself from the old device?
I assume the line that you don't lose continuity is supposed to imply this or similar, but I get the feeling if it isn't spelled out then we're going to get "you die when you move to a new device!" threads popping up :)

- I assume it's planned but just in case it isn't, software and/or infomorph traits that grant armor and/or interact with mesh attacks would be welcome.
Likewise having infomorphs' mesh durability/death ratings in thier stat blocks.

- Can we rename the 'Tap AR/Senses' actions to 'Intercept AR/Senses' or similar? Whilst accurate, the name sounds... silly somehow. :P

...
On a personal note, you know those sidebars about simple hacking?
You are wonderful people.

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few.
But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

o11o1 o11o1's picture
The sidebars about Simple and

The sidebars about Simple and Consolidated Hacking are really nice, and give us a clear way for tables to "broad strokes" the whole hacking system in a useful way that is still rules-supported.

It's actually nice enough that I wonder: can we have these Simple/Consolidated rules for the other major systems as well? Physical Combat and social influence in particular.

Sometimes I want to run a game in fast-play format and being able to do that for a firefight could be really handy. Otherwise if I just skip over rules someone is having their interesting stuff skipped over.

But I also like the long-format hacking, it's got enough crunch in it that I want to set up an adventure based around a complex hacking environment. Mesh Topology looks fun to set up.

A slight smell of ions....

Kssian Kssian's picture
In acrimony oneshot adventure

In acrimony oneshot adventure from the QuickStart EP2 rules it is possible to:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Hack a synth via mesh (hacking the mesh inserts) without access jack phys connection (an antagonist NPC of the adventure can do that) and shut down the sleeve.

Maybe it is because the sleeve has puppet sock?

Is that a specific rule for the adventure or it will be a standard rule?

Thanks in advance

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
That's totally a standard

That's totally a standard rule in both 1e and 2e. Essentially if you can hack their mesh inserts you can then proceed to hack their cyberbrain and force a crash. The puppet sock isn't explicitly required, that just allows an infomorph to ride inside (which, once put in there, is already past the mesh inserts and can hack the cyberbrain directly from there).

That said? Smart synths turn off their mesh inserts. That prevents wireless hacking entirely. Even biomorphs benefit from this if you're up against someone who may be screwing with your AR inputs (Doubly so if they're using basilisk hacks). It does mean turning off your tacnet though... or using an ecto!

Kssian Kssian's picture
That's totally badass! Thanks

That's totally badass! Thanks

dragonmarkeddm dragonmarkeddm's picture
Possible Missing Word.

In the Virtual Reality section, page 34, their appears to be a missing word in Accessing Simulaspaces, Paragraph 2. Appears to missing the word morph or body in the sentence "Most people prefer to keep their in a safe and comfortable environment while in a simulspace"