Titan/Psi Hunter build.

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Benny89 Benny89's picture
Titan/Psi Hunter build.

So one of my players came out with pretty scary build for EP. As a fellow powerbuilder I am Impressed by it :D.

In short: 30 COG (+5 from Nacroalgorythm), SAV 25, INT 30 (+5 from Narcoalgorythms), WIL 30, REF 5, SOM 5.

Traits: Dominant Strain, PSI level 2. Morph: Pleasure Pod (+5 COG, SAV, INT).

Sleights: Ambience Sense, Downtime, Predictive Boost, Unconscious Lead, Psi Shield, and Static

With Pod morph (-30 to Psi but only those needing skill, above ones do not) and STATIC any incoming PSI attack has -60 to rolls while he can use all psi (he can still buy few more good passives).

With Dominant Strain he also gets +10 bonus vs PSI instead of -20 so with his will he has 70 rolls.

Against Exsurgent Virus (COG + SAV + INT) with narcos on he rolls: 35+25+35= 95 vs Virus or Basilisk hack.

Then we have Narcoalgorythms (90 roll vs addition): KICK, GRIN, MDRD, Klar, Drive, Phlo. They can be activated instanty (as plugins per Transuman book) and give +2 Speed, +10 REF, +10 DUR, +10 SOM, +5 COG, +5 INT, +5 COO, +10 Perception.

As for cyberbrain hack: 80 Infosec (+ specialization), -30 for hacking cyberbrain, -30 for Hacking Alert software and -10 for Persistence software. Cumulative -60 to hacker vs 90 player infosec.

After taking some not that expensive implants his final stats after turning on all his nacroalgorythms are: 35 Cog, 35 INT, 30 SOM (5 +15 implants + 10 MRDR), 15 REF (5 basic +10 KICK), SAV 25, WIL 30.

Active Skills: Frey, Beam Weapons (Plasma Rifle), Seekers, Infiltration, Perception, Infosec. He can still add some more but that is basic of build: Plasma Rifle for single targets bursting, Seekers for Nanosworms/Long range attacks.

Final DUR with implants and MRDR: 55 DUR, WT 11. Not bad. Of course armor can be easly stack for low money if needed (Bioweave, Heavy Body Armor + all armor implants)= 39/34 (+10 to Energy vs Heat and Fire) so 49/34.

This character has basicelly guarantee success vs Exsurgent virus, super anti-PSI abilities, guarante WIL rolls vs Nacros and Stress (90 roll), very good rols vs PSI (70) and most of his power are software plug-ins so they egocast with him. The only thing that could give him problem is Freezer (REF X3 roll) and he doesn't have that high Initiative roll (can add +3 from Mental Speed thoght as software plugin).

Of course you could get more power out of this but dropping PSI and running synthmorph and you are immune to PSI anyway while having all other good things and only worry is brainhack (but we have high Infosec + -60 to hacker anyway). Dropping PSI + Sleights would give enough points to invest in Kinetic Weapons too.

Pretty darn good build imo :). I am impressed with min-max of this player.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
Pretty scary, yeah.

Pretty scary, yeah.

I bet the mirror match is a rough as heck fight though.

A slight smell of ions....

Benny89 Benny89's picture
o11o1 wrote:Pretty scary,

o11o1 wrote:
Pretty scary, yeah.

I bet the mirror match is a rough as heck fight though.

Not really. Problem with it is that Players have Moxie points. So even if I throw at him mirror build he can just upgrade with Moxie his every success to critical success (so guarantee Frey basicelly and ignore all armor on attack as per rules when critical success) so player can just burn 2-4 Moxies in one fight and delete any enemy anyway.

Many people tend to forget that you can upgrade success with moxie to critical, therefore securing crucial kill on enemy with ez. And enemies do not have Moxie points per rules if I recall correctly.

o11o1 o11o1's picture
NPCs get Moxie too though.

NPCs get Moxie too though.

A slight smell of ions....

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Pleasure Pods are sill capped

Pleasure Pods are sill capped at 30 on stats, so unless you have been less than clear on the attributes breaking (the way I'm reading it, he has 25 with +5 from narcoalgorythms, the Pod bonuses being a miss... so he would take better use from a morph with +REF).

Also, it's not a powergamer build, it's an overspecialized build onto resisting Exurgent Virus infection by being infected with the Exurgent Virus (a PC-able strain, but still...). That player build suffers the same weakness any Kuni shugenja tended to suffer in Legend of the Five Rings: they can function more or less outside of their specialized role, but they can only do their thing in the situations no sane character would want to be near to...
With the extra downside of Ref 5 being a great step on the direction of "act last, dodge worst", so that build's foil is a simple infected thug with a gun -.-

Unless, that is, the whole team is a TITAN-hunting specced group, that is, in which case...

Benny89 Benny89's picture
With the extra downside of

Xagroth wrote:
Pleasure Pods are sill capped at 30 on stats, so unless you have been less than clear on the attributes breaking (the way I'm reading it, he has 25 with +5 from narcoalgorythms, the Pod bonuses being a miss... so he would take better use from a morph with +REF).

Also, it's not a powergamer build, it's an overspecialized build onto resisting Exurgent Virus infection by being infected with the Exurgent Virus (a PC-able strain, but still...). That player build suffers the same weakness any Kuni shugenja tended to suffer in Legend of the Five Rings: they can function more or less outside of their specialized role, but they can only do their thing in the situations no sane character would want to be near to...
With the extra downside of Ref 5 being a great step on the direction of "act last, dodge worst", so that build's foil is a simple infected thug with a gun -.-

Unless, that is, the whole team is a TITAN-hunting specced group, that is, in which case...

Nacroalgorythms, same a augments rise apptitudes above morph max apptitude so I don't see a problem here. Corebook is clear about that. And what do you mean dodge worst? Dodge has nothing to do with REF, it's Frey skill which this build has 85 at start. You don't dodge with REF, you dodge with Frey (or Free Fall etc.). Also act last- you have 10 base INIT here + Mental Speed +3 = 13 and later in game you can boost it easly with Reflex Booster or Adrenaline boost for another +10 to REF, giving you 35+25/5 + 3= 15 INIT, which is a solid INIT.

And what do you mean in situation no sane person would like to be? Players are firewall agents. During our adventures we often have to deal with exsurgent, TITANs etc. as this is one of core things in EP. Like you know- one of the biggest things in EP.

It's like saying Anti-Chaos build in WH doesn't make sense as you don't want to fight Chaos at all. Well, why do you even play WH then?

And it is powerbuild by all means. Every powerbuild is specialized to be as effective as possible. Character who can do everything medicore is not powerbuild, it's just all-around build. Powerbuilds always suffer from overspecialization.

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Benny89 wrote:

Benny89 wrote:

Nacroalgorythms, same a augments rise apptitudes above morph max apptitude so I don't see a problem here. Corebook is clear about that. And what do you mean dodge worst? Dodge has nothing to do with REF, it's Frey skill which this build has 85 at start. You don't dodge with REF, you dodge with Frey (or Free Fall etc.). Also act last- you have 10 base INIT here + Mental Speed +3 = 13 and later in game you can boost it easly with Reflex Booster or Adrenaline boost for another +10 to REF, giving you 35+25/5 + 3= 15 INIT, which is a solid INIT.

Sorry, too long since I post that, no idea atm about the Init stuff.
As for the stats, the way you wrote it was kinda messy, so I wasn't sure were the base stats ended, where the bought stats were, and if the drug stats were or not included.

Benny89 wrote:

And what do you mean in situation no sane person would like to be? Players are firewall agents. During our adventures we often have to deal with exsurgent, TITANs etc. as this is one of core things in EP. Like you know- one of the biggest things in EP.

It's like saying Anti-Chaos build in WH doesn't make sense as you don't want to fight Chaos at all. Well, why do you even play WH then?


Never liked WH RPG, but I know enough of the setting to tell you that there is a flaw in your idea: Chaos is not the only plot available to players in Warhammer, the same way TITAN-hunting is not the only one for players in EP.
My point was, simply, that unless the whole team is devoted to TITAN hunting, your specced guy will either be subpar in all situations not involving facing Exurgent Virus strains, or forcing the rest of the party onto those situations they might not want to touch.

Consider how, unlike in Legend of the Five Rings or Warhammer Fantasy RPG, Firewall is a conspiracy with nearly perfect knowledge of their agent's capabilities, limited resources (both about agents, time, and material), and specialized people. In other words, if the whole group is oriented to espionage and laying low, the guy who is good only at shooting and brushing off the Exurgent Virus will see little use of his skills.

Of course, the GM can be a dick and place Exurgents on all games as a "surprise! You did not expect that!", but that can be tiresome for the players, and their characters can raise the issue with their routers: why the hell all their operations end with the sudden discover of exurgents? Is there some sort of flaw on the intelligence gathering system? Someone is hiding Exurgent hunting missions among other ones? Why are not the cleaners involved in this?

Benny89 wrote:

And it is powerbuild by all means. Every powerbuild is specialized to be as effective as possible. Character who can do everything medicore is not powerbuild, it's just all-around build. Powerbuilds always suffer from overspecialization.

Of course powerbuilds are specialized characters. My point is that this one inserts several parts of the game that should not, in all games, always be present. In my analogy of Five Rings, it would be like playing on the First Edition timeline, and face the creatures of the Dark Lands EVERY gaming session, because there is a Crab player with a character that can ONLY shine when facing those. Other players (like the courtier... or the duelist... or the monk...) might feel annoyed, not to mention that their characters might not be able to survive a single bout with a creature capable of inflicting the Taint (granted, in Rokugan that topic is not talked about unless you are a Crab, and always means losing honor, while in EP is just about reading on the subject).

Benny89 Benny89's picture
Xagroth wrote:

Xagroth wrote:

Of course, the GM can be a dick and place Exurgents on all games as a "surprise! You did not expect that!", but that can be tiresome for the players, and their characters can raise the issue with their routers: why the hell all their operations end with the sudden discover of exurgents? Is there some sort of flaw on the intelligence gathering system? Someone is hiding Exurgent hunting missions among other ones? Why are not the cleaners involved in this?

There is always a flaw in intelligence gathering system. There is no perfect intelligence and from corebook it's said that firewall is not big enough to be able to be and predict everything in Solar System. Reading corebook Exsurgent is not something that rare in any "post TITAN activity" areas and noone said every mission has to invovle TITAN warbots and Exurgent. You think guy who hunts TITAN units is not able to shot mercenaries or other "normal" stuff? And cleaners? Cleaners can fail and there is not enough cleaners to cover whole system. And while egocasting is nice, there is no insta-teleport in EP if you suddenly have to deal with something nasty. Also, reading corebook, cleaners mostly come after "mess" to "clean" things up.

And why GM has to be a dick? We have mixed party and we all enjoy when there is that horror aspect of EP like xeno lifes, TITANs and Exsurgent. GM balances things nice so there is room for everyone to have his time.

There is also roleplaying stuff. In corebook there is a honorable mention of Titan hunters/busters and that they are very rare and super respected/feared. Maybe player want to be one of that elite soldiers/hunters?

In Warhammer one of the most picked character has alway been Slayer. It does not mean that every single session need to have tons of fights, trolls, giants and dragons. Player simply enjoy roleplaying that character and it's GM job to balance adventures so both Slayer/Titan Buster and Hacker/Shadow Wizard have things to do.

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Benny89 wrote:

Benny89 wrote:

And why GM has to be a dick? We have mixed party and we all enjoy when there is that horror aspect of EP like xeno lifes, TITANs and Exsurgent. GM balances things nice so there is room for everyone to have his time.

I would find hard to deploy an Exurgent threat that can play with the risk and horror of the infection to the players if one (and only one) of them is 99% immune while they can get done with a nasty look. My position on "optimizing" is quite simple: OK as long as it doesn't force the whole group to go that way (which usually ends with the same comparative power level between NPC's and PC's, but with bigger numbers and a taller, but narrower, pyramid of options. And tons of work for the GM).

The problem is that being infected means "you died" on this adventure. And not deploying Exurgents against the group means the player who bet a lot on facing exurgents moves around limping, since part of his capabilities are not used.

Benny89 wrote:

There is also roleplaying stuff. In corebook there is a honorable mention of Titan hunters/busters and that they are very rare and super respected/feared. Maybe player want to be one of that elite soldiers/hunters?

While I agree that Roleplaying is great, we thread in that part of the setting that says "Firewall assembles teams with regards of their experience, compatibility, capabilities and expected resistance". Someone with capacities to face Exurgents I can accept in a generic group. Someone whose FOCUS is to fight and survive Exurgent Strains and TITAN tech would be assigned to a group devoted to that stuff, or to missions where the likelihood of facing those threats warrant the inclusion of a devoted specialist.

In other words: in EP having a devoted infohacker needs no explanation, the same as a social hacker ("face"), having a soldier needs little, having a "quartermaster" needs as much as a soldier. Having a specialist in a single thing, with that thing being Big Nasty Monsters, means that he will sit idly, have his defining focus ignored, or dominate the situation.
Not my cup of tea, frankly, since I expect my players to all be able to do something in all situations. To have half the party waiting for "their turn to shine" we already have games with corseted character advances.

Benny89 wrote:

In Warhammer one of the most picked character has alway been Slayer. It does not mean that every single session need to have tons of fights, trolls, giants and dragons. Player simply enjoy roleplaying that character and it's GM job to balance adventures so both Slayer/Titan Buster and Hacker/Shadow Wizard have things to do.

It's the player's job to not fight each other for attention. If the Slayer is a good warrior who happens to work at 95% of what a normal warrior does most of the time and at 110-120% against his chosen enemy, great (they also tend to wear little armor, so...). The problem is that Sci-Fi settings tend to give more importance to skills, and some can be real game changers, so a warrior has to be able to do more than just soak damage and dish out DPS.

I haven't make the point costs, but I see glaring holes in that build, namely how he has only Infosec, only a single weapon, no Gunnery, no social skills...

And if we go with fluff, the real TITAN hunters are the good ol' Ultimates, who can face TITAN stuff with just skill and wisdom, instead of a package of specialized advantages that means the guy will be the last of the group dying of terminal indigestion of regular damage instead of "zombification beams", since in the end he is alone against the TITAN tech... which needs a single infected to gain access to the Tacnet, gaining also another gun.

Hunting TITANs is not a work for a lone specialist and a bunch of non-specialists. He either goes alone with traps and ambushes, or with more like him.