Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches and other Damage on Time.

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Rhyx Rhyx's picture
Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches and other Damage on Time.

Liquid Thermite:

Quote:
It is ignited with an electric charge, burning at temperatures exceeding 2,500 degrees Celsius and melting through whatever it is touching. Liquid thermite inflicts 3d10 + 5 DV per
Action turn to whatever it is touching. Armor will also be burnt through, offering no protection once the full Armor rating has been reached.

Scrapper's Gel:

Quote:
In acid form, scrapper’s gel does 1d10+5 DV per Action Turn to anything it touches, unless the material has been treated against acid. Armor will protect against this acid at first, but the acid will eat through the armor, so that it will no longer protect after its full armor value has been reached.

Torches:

Quote:
Any hit that is an Excellent Success (MoS 30+) sets the target on fire, where they will continue to take 2d10 damage per Action Turn.

Fire:

Quote:
Burning items (or characters) will suffer 1d10 ÷ 2 (round up) damage each Action Turn unless otherwise noted. Energy armor will protect against this damage, though it too may catch fire, reducing its value by the damage inflicted. Depending on the environmental conditions,
res are likely to grow larger unless somehow abated. Every 5 Action Turns, increase the DV inflicted (first to 1d10, then 2d10, then 3d10, then by increments of +5).

Here's the problem: When does it stop? How long does the effect last?

A player of mine has decided that it might be cool to stuff a piezoelectric cell in a splash round filled with Scrapper's gel and start firing those off basically eating away a targets armor. Cool idea, I have nothing against except: when does the damage on time for a Scrapper's gel round end? So we looked and looked and absolutely none of damage on time have a listed time limit set on them. Not the liquid thermite, the handy dandy torch or even regular good old fire...

So would anyone with better chemical knowledge than mine (namely most of the board) try to answer at least how long Scrapper's gel lasts in Action turns (or destructive potential per volume)? But while we are at it why not take a peek at all the rest of the DoTs?

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches ...

hmm. that's a great question and a tricky thing to adjudicate with these rules. It would help if there were rules for how much area a 'unit' of chemical would cover and how much total damage each was capable of doing.

ie; 250¢ worth of Scrapers gel will do a maximum of 50dv at a rate of 1d10+5dv/ Action Turn to an area of half a square meter.

Off the hip; my ruleing would be that the amount of scrapper's gel in a caplule round would cover an area of 100cm^2. It would react for two or three Action turns before all the gel was consumed in the reaction.

I'd also say that the amount of gel you buy for 250¢ would make 50 capsule rounds.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Rhyx Rhyx's picture
Re: Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches ...

Thanks Pony!

I think the part I like the most about your answer is the fact that there's a max Dv that the acid kinda of expands into until filled. So the damage is not instantaneous and yet it is still damage on time until the acid fills it's damage potential.

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches ...

glad I could help :)

Edit:
How would you benchmark Liquid Thermite?
Maximum 150DV @ 3d10+5/ Action Turn, 300cm^2 area?

that would be enough to cut a 50cm wide hole in an airlock door. You'd need 3 or more units to cut a man sized hole. Each 'attack' would be likely to cause a 'wound' in an airlock door so probably 2-3 action turns would get you through. (first attack overcomes the armor(15) second attack has something like a 40% chance of causing a wound.)

Oddly cutting through a reinforced wall (armor30, Dur 100, WT 20) is just as quick if you rule that a single wound creates a hole. 2 turns to get through the armor, and a 55% chance of making a wound each turn after that.

I'd like to be able to model multiple aplications of chemicals. Similar to the way demolitions works with SuperThermite.

[edit]
just thought of another mechanic that might be kinda trick.
Each unit of MoS/F on a Demolitions (or apropriate hardware) test increases the damage total as well as the damage per turn.

+-2DV per 10 MoS/F for Scrapper's gel
+-5DV per 10 MoS/F for Liquid Thermite

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches ...

These things are not going to have a fixed time limit of burn. Scrapper's gel and liquid thermite will burn longer or shorter depending on how much is used and how it is distributed. A thin amount spread just well enough to get the job done will likely only do enough damage to get the job done... and thus only burn for a few seconds. A big jar of it might burn for hours. The same is true with the torch and fire damage... is the person wearing flammable clothing? Are they taking measures to snuff out the fire? Are they covered in napalm? These will all have an effect on how long the fire will actually burn.

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches ...

Ya, but I'm asumeing that the amount you buy as listed in the book is one unit of fuel.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Rhyx Rhyx's picture
Re: Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches ...

Which is a limited amount of potential energy whichever way you slice it.

Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Trouble with Scrapper's Gel, Liquid Thermite, Torches ...

OneTrikPony wrote:
Ya, but I'm asumeing that the amount you buy as listed in the book is one unit of fuel.

Rhyx wrote:
Which is a limited amount of potential energy whichever way you slice it.

Limited, yes... but not necessarily burning at the same speed. Like I said, a pool of gel will burn away far faster than the same amount of gel sitting in a cylinder and burning from the top. It's a simple matter of how much is being consumed at a time. In that same vein, a person covered in scrapper's gel will burn for more time if they are wearing wool clothing than if they are wearing a flame-retardant suit. In the case of thermite, it burns QUICK, but how long it will last depends on how you shape and apply it.

If I had to make a guess, I would actually say a far smaller number than OneTrikPony... each unit of thermite would probably only burn for a single round in any case. Half a bucket of normal thermite burns for only a few seconds, and I'd imagine that a unit of thermite would be smaller than that and be designed to burn faster (thermite is designed to burn fast). As for scrapper's gel, the 3 rounds sounds pretty good for that. I might even go so far as saying that it will continue to burn as long as electricity is applied, running out of potential only when it has no current (the same trick works with battery acid, but it's hard to pull off).

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.

Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.