Attribute Checks vs Skills

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Nate T Nate T's picture
Attribute Checks vs Skills

I'm in a group currently playing in and testing the 2E rules and the difference between attribute tests and skill tests is tripping us up. For example: mnemonics says it helps on COG tests for remembering things. If I'm trying to remember if my character's training covered anything about where the weak points might be on a synth exhuman, is that COG + mnemonics? Is that Knowledge (Hardware)? Is that Perception? Is that some other skill?

Another example: REF checks specifically are called out for "Reflexes (REF) Check: Catch a thrown object, balance, avoid blinding glare, or stop yourself from falling." But when I check the write-up for the Athletics skill it notes "Athletics (SOM): Physical activity in gravity with a humanoid, uplift, or biomimicked morph, including climbing, running, swimming, gymnastics, throwing, and winged flight." So if someone threw a grenade at my character and I wanted to catch it and throw it back, it would be a REF check to catch it and an Athletics check to throw it back? Or just an Athletics check?

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Err... good question. I had

Err... good question. I had to look this up. When you put it this way, it does get confusing.

In general, you want to be using your skills, not aptitude tests. Skills apply to most situations. I'm not really sure when aptitude tests apply.

If you don't have the required skills, you will have to default. Defaulting is when you must roll the aptitude linked to the skill you should be using. You don't roll x3 your aptitude here, you roll just your aptitude. For instance, if you had to make a Hardware: Electronics test, but you didn't have the skill, then you would have to roll your COG. Lets say it was 10, then your target number would be 10. Not very good odds. A character who was trained in Hardware: Electronics might have scores of 50, 75, or even 90.

Knowing information about an Exhuman would probably require the skill Know: Exhumans. You could try to use other skills to get knowledge. For instance, Know: Morphs might be able to allow you to identify weak points on an Exhuman morph.

Know skills are different from memory tests. Know is knowledge that you made an effort to not only learn, but also to be sure to have the right answer. A memory test will help you remember what happened or what you were told, but it has no guarantee to be the right answer.

Edit: You can find some information on defaulting on p. 31. Defaulting is basically your ability to improvise when you don't have the right skills.

ICU2 ICU2's picture
Skills are normally rolled

Skills are normally rolled when actively trying to do something. Aptitude checks are largely passive reactions/resistances (e.g., catching an object thrown to/at you is a reaction not an action).

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
I did some more looking and

I did some more looking and found that mnemonics ware give a bonus to COG tests that involve memory and that WIL tests are be used to handle stress. I couldn't find much else.

Since there isn't much in the books, I think it would be safe for you to forget that stat tests exist. Well, except for when you need to roll for resisting stress. That needs WIL tests.

ICU2 ICU2's picture
DivineWrath wrote:

DivineWrath wrote:

Since there isn't much in the books, I think it would be safe for you to forget that stat tests exist. Well, except for when you need to roll for resisting stress. That needs WIL tests.

There are more than you are mentioning:
SOM tests to avoid penalties from Intergration and to resist some pathogens and toxins, and shock weapons.
SAV tests to resist Persuade,
INT tests to resist Basilisk hacks.
WIL tests to resist Provoke.
Again--with the exception of using Kinesics to resist Deception and using Fray to resist physical attacks--most rolls to avoid/resist the action of someone else are Aptitude tests.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
OK. Thanks. I couldn't find

OK. Thanks. I couldn't find them when I was last searching for them.

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
IIRC Wounds and Traumas are

IIRC Wounds and Traumas are resisted with SOM and WIL tests respectively aren't they? E.g. take a Wound (your WT on one hit), roll SOM×3 or fall prone/temporary incapacitation.

Fits the theme of Aptitude checks for reactions, Skills (incl. Aptitude ×1 to default) for active efforts to do something or see if you know something.

Knowing the weak points of exhuman morphs is a Know skill test of some variety, mnemonics would aid recalling seeing the same sensor glitch at both times the exhuman attacked, thus figuring out some sort of clue based on memories and experiences, not some sort of training regarding exhumans.

Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Franwax Franwax's picture
uwtartarus wrote:IIRC Wounds

uwtartarus wrote:
IIRC Wounds and Traumas are resisted with SOM and WIL tests respectively aren't they? E.g. take a Wound (your WT on one hit), roll SOM×3 or fall prone/temporary incapacitation.

Fits the theme of Aptitude checks for reactions, Skills (incl. Aptitude ×1 to default) for active efforts to do something or see if you know something.

Correct.
Adding to that, I would contend that Skills should be used for more specific results. Aptitude tests are just raw physical/mental performance actions/reactions. Mostly reactions, but not only...
Page 213 explains that catching a grenade that was thrown at you (one of the examples of the OP) is a REF check at -20. If you succeed, you can then throw it back with the same complex action (which in this case is an Athletics check, as for usual thrown weapons attacks).