Eclipse Phase 2 Rules Discussion

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ubik2 ubik2's picture
Eclipse Phase 2 Rules Discussion

I noticed there were some places where I wasn't sure what was intended by the rules, and I'm curious how others have interpreted these.

In the Fray description on p. 48, it mentions the skill is halved for defense vs. Guns. It's not clear if the specialization bonus is applied to this first (in which case it is effectively +5) or if it is applied after. I assume other modifiers would apply after.

In the Free Fall description on p. 49, it's clear that this skill is used instead of Athletics in microgravity. It's not clear what happens with the Pilot skills. We could use the same Pilot skill. This is probably appropriate for Pilot: Air (since microgravity isn't much different there). It might not be appropriate for Pilot: Ground without something like a magnetic system/grip pads. In that case, should Pilot: Space be used instead?

In the Aiming section on p. 206, it's clear that you can only use your quick action to aim when firing in single-shot or semi-auto mode. It's not entirely clear whether you can use a complex action to aim when firing in Burst Fire or Full Automatic mode, though I assume you cannot. In any case, the play example on p. 203 involves the quick action aim with burst fire, so there's at least a contradiction.

In the Railguns section on p. 211, it mentions "Railguns are available in the same models as firearms (pistols through machine guns)." I take this statement to exclude the Polygun variants as well as the Sniper Rifle, but I'm not certain if that's intentional.

In the Bot/Vehicle ALI entry in the table on p. 327, the ALI gets the Pilot skill at 60. Since many Bots and Vehicles have multiple movement modes, it's possible they should also have secondary movement skills at 40, possibly also including specialization. Similarly, I assume those with biomimicked movement would have Athletics at 60 instead. Since ALIs can't default, they would be unable to operate in those relatively common situations without the skill.

In the Hardsuits section on page 351, it's stated that "Occupants can only wear armor with an Armor Value (either energy or kinetic) of 4 or less inside the hardsuit." I'm not sure if this is supposed to be based on the total (including armor additions like dermal armor), or just the flat armor, like the Crash Suit.

branford branford's picture
Can an async operate a

Can an async operate a Pandora Gate using the Grok Psi-Chi sleight without a Blue Box interface?

SquireNed SquireNed's picture
No. Grok simply says that you

No. Grok simply says that you know how to use it, but it doesn't necessarily provide the tools for doing so. If you want to rule that the Pandora Gates are reactive to psi phenomena, then you could go that route, but it's not RAW. You could maybe also use it without a Blue Box by finding other equivalent tools, but this is also something that might not work. A Blue Box is not optional according to the rules on Page 405.

branford branford's picture
Would an async who Groks a

Would an async who Groks a Pandora Gate learn the "truth" of what they are (assuming it's just not a stargate)?

Also, wouldn't an async with Grok and a Blue Box be able to do a helluva lot more with a gate than anyone else?

ubik2 ubik2's picture
branford wrote:Would an async

branford wrote:
Would an async who Groks a Pandora Gate learn the "truth" of what they are (assuming it's just not a stargate)?

No. You know how to work it, but not how it works. I think this is pretty well covered in the description on p. 281.

branford wrote:
Also, wouldn't an async with Grok and a Blue Box be able to do a helluva lot more with a gate than anyone else?

It's entirely possible you could do a lot more. This is really up to the campaign. The player probably shouldn't know exactly what they're doing. Just that hitting this sequence of symbols feels right, and then something happens. Ideally, this will be plot related, so if they need to escape, it takes them home, but if they're trying to catch an abducted fork, it takes them to the right place for that.

Grim G Grim G's picture
Is it out?

So, considering how recent this post is, is 2nd ed out yet? I haven't seen anything and I've been keeping an eye on this for a few days now.

ubik2 ubik2's picture
It went out to the

It went out to the Kickstarter backers. I'm not sure what the holdup is for the general release on channels like drivethrurpg. Adam mentioned it going out on Monday, but he tends to be a bit optimistic.

I imagine they're at GenCon, and there may be some intentional delay to get the print copies out at the same time (particularly if that's where they make most of their money).

Technically, due to the permissive license, anyone with the Kickstarter version could now share it freely (Sad!), but I've held off on doing that so the posthuman guys can capture the buyers from a paid release first (Excellent!).

Edit: Based on this thread, I don't think we'll see general access until after GenCon.

Grim G Grim G's picture
Interesting. I don't suppose

Interesting. I don't suppose anyone here wants to link a copy of the core? Don't get me wrong, I'll buy it immediately (hell, I bought the 1st Ed core twice), but I'm planning on running a game soon (with 10 players) and I want to be ahead of the curve.

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
async share skill

I'm wondering if Pushing the psi sleight "implant skill" gets the x2 bonus. As it is it seems not terribly useful? Like, at chargen max skill is 80, implanting at half is 40 which is mediocre at best.

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
40 is still better than

40 is still better than nothing, and rules out the possibility of a double superior failure. And while you wouldn't want to regularly rely on a 40 skill for important things, it is still between a 1/3 and 1/2 chance of success.

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
I guess, but it seems

I guess, but it seems problematically niche for something that has an infection mod of 6 and likely a 3 hour duration. 40 is too low a skill to plan an op around, and if it's an in-the-moment thing... well, your async is right there, and can do it twice as well.

Hmm, I also interpreted it as including the async's aptitude as well. Leaving that out and only halving the spent points could raise the passed skill to 50 if the recipient had the same aptitude. Hard to tell what was intended - they talk about the skill caps with the aptitudes included.
Regardless, I'm still curious about how the Push rules are supposed to interact, if they do at all.

Zen Walrus Zen Walrus's picture
Sounds to me like it's

Sounds to me like it's supposed to give you whatever skill you need at a moment's notice. If you don't have a skill covered, or your specialist is unable to help/out of action 40 is nothing to scoff at.

Nefasine Nefasine's picture
skill checks vs skill tests?

Does anyone know if there is a distinction between using a skill and an attribute check?
I see traits such as Acumen "add +5 per level to your COG checks" and wonder does that effect skill usage.
If it does, then it is a lot cheaper then just increasing your COG naturally; so my feeling is its not for skills only attribute checks but wanted to confirm

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DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
In theory, skills reflect

In theory, skills reflect training while aptitudes are raw ability. Some examples of aptitude checks are on p. 37.

In practice, skill checks are what the number lists. If it says you got a skill rating of 70, then your target number is 70. Aptitude checks are the aptitude * 3. So if you had COG of 20, then the target number is 60. There are many things that can modify these numbers. Traits like Acumen raise your COG check by 5 per level. So if you had a COG of 20 with Acumen level 1, your target number would be 65.

Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
As far as Implant Skill goes,

As far as Implant Skill goes, there are a few uses that I can see. First and foremost are cases where it is useful to have extra people capable of performing a given skill and where the penalty for failure is minimal. An example would be giving an otherwise non-combatant a Guns skill so they can help defend themselves. Yes a bodyguard can shoot anyone that comes near, but it helps if they can point and shoot too, no?

Secondly are cases where teamwork is useful. You'll notice 40 is the minimum to assist with more complicated tasks.

Third, complentary skills. Again, 40 is a minimum here to unlock this. If someone is using an active skill that would really benefit from a Knowledge skill you have, it may be more useful for them to have essentially a primer on it. The example given in the book of using cult knowledge to assist with persuasion is a prime example of a case where you can't just be off to the side teaching them as they work.

Lastly, there may be cases where your async may be needed elsewhere, but somebody still needs to do the task here. As with the first situation I stated, a requirement is that the penalty for failure not be dire (I'd rather not have a "doctor" with an implanted medicine skill perform surgery...), but this can essentially allow you to act in two places at once without needing to go through the trouble of making a fork and potentially needing to sleeve it as well.

Are they all niche uses? Absolutely, but that's psi in a nutshell.

MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
Teamwork bonus is a good

Teamwork bonus is a good point. That effectively turns the sleight into "+10 on your major skill roll" and pushes you up to ~90. If you use the sleight Push to affect a second person, you've got almost automatic success for 3 hours. That's actually pretty good, since getting the skill or aptitude points to fill in that last 20% isn't very easy. All the niche situations are gravy.

eaton eaton's picture
Quote:Does anyone know if

Does anyone know if there is a distinction between using a skill and an attribute check?

Yeah, Attribute Checks are very explicitly noted as "COGx3" or "WILx3" style tests, not just "any test against a skill linked to an attribute." It's useful — SOM checks are used for brute strength, WIL checks are for stress, INT checks are what protects you from basilisk hacks and so on. But the wares that boost apt checks are, sadly, not a cheap way to boost a bunch of linked skills. ;-)
Grim G Grim G's picture
So... any idea when the rules

So... any idea when the rules are coming? It's supposed to be August 9th and I've been hitting refresh on Drivethru every now and again.

kindalas kindalas's picture
Grim G wrote:So... any idea

Grim G wrote:
So... any idea when the rules are coming? It's supposed to be August 9th and I've been hitting refresh on Drivethru every now and again.

They should be up on Drivethrough RPG now.

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Starkiller Starkiller's picture
Sorry wrong post

Sorry wrong post