What is the difference between Exhumans and Ultimates?

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ibrahim6810 ibrahim6810's picture
What is the difference between Exhumans and Ultimates?

ibrahim

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
Question asked so many times,

Question asked so many times, once more answered.

Ultimates want to be the best HUMANS they can be using technology and determination for self-improvement. Their name was chosen by themselves. They are pretty much unified. I won't go into their ideology (khem, khem thinly veiled strawman fascists EDIT: better word is supremacists).

Exhumans want to be the best BEINGS they can be using technology and discarding whatever stops them from attaining their vision of perfection. Sometimes it's morals sometimes it is parts of their own personality. Generally they are very extreme in their approach. Some even discard their consciouss mind (Defilers). They are extremely fractured usually among the ways by which they seek perfection. Their name is a "hold it all" term that was given externally. Usually pretty hostile to transhumanity.

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nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
Ultimates want to perfect the

Ultimates want to perfect the human form. Exhumans find this sentimental attachment to the human form to be naive (well at least the ones who haven't thrown away the concept of "sentimental").

Shuukyoku Shuukyoku's picture
In DnD terms...

Ultimate want to get the training and gear to be the greatest dragonslayers humanity has ever seen. Exhumans want to be the dragon.

If you took the monsters' point of view, everything they did made perfect sense. The trick was learning to think like a monster.

Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Shuukyoku wrote:Ultimate want

Shuukyoku wrote:
Ultimate want to get the training and gear to be the greatest dragonslayers humanity has ever seen. Exhumans want to be the dragon.

Nah. Ultimates want to be Trascendent Monks of epic scale, Exhumans are just munchkins that care about nothing but "being on the top". Think Epic Githzyanki true neutral for Ultimates, Pun Pun for Exhumans.

Chaotic-nipple Chaotic-nipple's picture
Depends entirely who you ask.

Depends entirely who you ask. To a Jovian, OBVIOUSLY Ultimates are Exhumans, since they callously discard their essential humanity. To an Extropian, they're obviously NOT exhumans, since they understand and abide by contract law. A Planetary Consortium executive might concede that they're Exhumans, but useful enough to justify hiring them. IMO, "exhuman" is a label applied by outsiders, relatively few souleaters, predators, or parasites use it themselves, even if they still use human languages.

Burnsidhe Burnsidhe's picture
The best way to remember the

The best way to remember the difference is

Ultimates attempt to be the ultimate human.
Exhumans are ex-human.

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
If you take a look at the

If you take a look at the sample exhumans (on p. 381), they have restricted behavior 3 (empathy). This means that they will suffer stress damage when ever experiencing the emotion or forced to conduct such behavior. They don't want to engage in human societies. They are burning the bridge behind them (considering the neural damage they have, they might have started burning said bridges while they were still crossing).

I don't think any Ultimates have restricted behavior (I'm not aware of any Ultimates stated up in the book). What we do know is that they are fascist, which is human behavior however despised it may be.

ICU2 ICU2's picture
DivineWrath wrote:

DivineWrath wrote:

I don't think any Ultimates have restricted behavior (I'm not aware of any Ultimates stated up in the book). What we do know is that they are fascist, which is human behavior however despised it may be.

I'm somewhat surprised that the Ultimates haven't been shown to have a techno-fantasy fascism approach that incorporates some of the benefits of fascism (primarily short-term gains towards survival following the Fall) much as the anarchists have done with techno-fantasy communism and the Titanians have done with their brand of techno-fantasy socialism. I'm sure it stems from the writers' personal politics and the current popular (if not entirely accurate) view that fascism has no positive aspects.

In EP1e, there were sample PCs that were Ultimates, and I do not recall any of them having modified behaviors.

Nate T Nate T's picture
The difference seems to be

The difference seems to be that the dream for Ultimates is taking over the rest of transhumanity and ruling over us in the techo-facist method they follow. The dream for Exhumans is break way from transhumanity altogether, regarding the rest of us as merely prey to be hunted.

ICU2 ICU2's picture
Nate T wrote:The dream for

Nate T wrote:
The dream for Exhumans is break way from transhumanity altogether, regarding the rest of us as merely prey to be hunted.

Some Exhumans (predators) believe that humans are prey, but many others just want nothing more to do with humanity at all.

Still though, I generally agree: For all Exhumans, the defining trait is a desire to secede from transhumanity. Ultimates instead want to succeed to dominance over transhumanity.

CordialUltimate2 CordialUltimate2's picture
By reactivating this thread

By reactivating this thread you activated my trap card...
Seriously though. I now know where the controversy around ultimates is coming from.

So off topic time:

I chose the faction as an origin for my main some years ago based on the blurb in core book. Not even the full faction writeup from the book... just the blurb. "These guys sound cool". Now with more context they do not seem so cool anymore.
But it is possible to have a shining image of the faction in your head just by reading randomly the bits and pieces it
In the books. You just have to get the correct combination...

Now there were a lot of conflicts around faction portrayal in EP books. I think it is mainly the problem of the scattered nature of content. You get a random first impression from reading the blurb in the core and your bias. Then you fit the pieces of lore to be aligned with that image...
And when you go to the internet you clash with all the other people who have the wildly different images because their process of building that image influenced by human biases results in something totally incompatible. And then people great reach other around with 2 strawmen that they constructed

But it is strangely similar to how we build our political opinions in the real world. Which is ****** IMO. Very not rational.

So that is why politically charged EP caused so many conflicts in the past.

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